Jules (00:13) Cathy Rhodes, I am absolutely thrilled to have you as my guest for the She’s the Boss Disruptors podcast today. Thank you so much for agreeing to do it. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (00:22) goodness it’s such a pleasure to be here Joel, thanks so much for the invitation. Jules (00:26) Well, I had to, I had to extend an invitation when I saw what you were up to on LinkedIn, so I don’t want to reveal everything for people that are listening, but let’s start off with you just quickly telling us what it is you do, what’s your business called? Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (00:40) Yeah. So I have a brand new business that I’m so excited to talk to you about. In fact, you are my first, I’m hoping of many podcast interviews. So well done you on being, you know, the disruption queen, but ahead of the curve. So I’ve started a business only a few months ago now, and it’s called held and free and it’s in a social enterprise that’s designed to stand with, to stand alongside women who run businesses. Jules (00:46) Woohoo! Ahead of the curve! Right? Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (01:08) and are also experiencing crisis. So crisis of a health variety, crisis of a legal variety, crisis in their personal lives and that that has an impact on how they’re able to show up in a entrepreneurial sense and in a business sense as well. So that’s what I’m now dedicating the rest of my life to doing. Jules (01:29) my god, I love it. And tell everyone what’s it called. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (01:33) It’s called Held and Free. And so our website is heldfree.com. it’s the name for the business was inspired by Glennon Doyle’s work. And really what she talks about is that the best family structures are where all individuals within it are held and feel psychologically safe and are physically safe, but also free at the same time. Jules (01:37) Right? Yeah. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (02:00) to be them as individuals. So free to make mistakes, free to be vulnerable, free to need to ask for help. And so having read her material years and years ago, when I thought about this business, was like, that’s the type of community, that’s the type of family I wanted to create for women in business, that you’re held through the tough times so that you continue to have freedom well beyond the tough stuff. That’s where it comes from. Jules (02:26) my god, I can’t even tell you how much I love this. And also how badly it’s needed. mean myself having gone through a divorce when I was trying to run a business, I had twins. I found out I was pregnant with twins just as my dad got diagnosed with a brain tumor and I was starting my PR business. you know, it is a really, really hard thing to get through. So I think it’s super fantastic that you’re doing this. the next thing I want to know is why you think it’s needed. I mean, I know why it’s needed. I’m sure all the women listening will go, what a stupid question, Jules. But I kind of want to know what you want to disrupt and what you think is broken in the system that you think this is gonna solve. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (03:11) Yeah. So for me, women like us, and like all the women listening to your podcasts, we tend to fall through the cracks. So we already know there’s so much out there about the mother load and wearing multiple hats and needing to be, you know, the best friend and the entrepreneur. Like we already know that, but I think for women who are going through crisis, if you run a business, it’s so much harder and it’s harder because one crack that we fall through is financial support. Jules (03:15) Yep. Yeah. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (03:40) So let me give you an example. if you need, for example, and I’m sure I’ll talk more about this in a moment. If you are someone who is an employed woman by a large corporate and you need time off because you’re unwell or because for example, you’re escaping domestic violence, there is leave, paid leave often or unpaid leave, but your job will stay in place and you have support around you or Jules (03:41) Yep. Yeah. Secure. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (04:08) employment assistant programs, there’s lots of things that exist to help you get through that and maintain your career, maintain the bills that need to be paid. If you’re a woman that runs your own business, that doesn’t always apply. And where it gets even trickier is that often it’s the case you earn too much money to get government support, but not enough sitting in your reserve. So if we think about our businesses, Jules (04:14) Yeah. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (04:36) And we’ve done all of our clever planning and we’ve got money set aside for all of our subscriptions and all of our suppliers and all the invoices we know we need to pay and our insurances and all the things, right? So we’ve got, we’ve got strategies in place, but something completely left of center arrives. You can’t then turn around and reallocate those funds easily to things like legal advice or, you know, Jules (04:48) Yeah. No. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (05:04) or having time off so that you’re sick so you can go and have medical treatment or you can continue to pay for a virtual assistant with no money coming in. those sorts of cracks is financial cracks that I’ve experienced through my best friend firsthand. But also there’s the loneliness side and that’s equally important for me to disrupt and fix because I mean, I remember like you, my background’s in PR and Jules (05:19) Yes. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (05:32) The first job I had out of uni was working for a boutique PR firm. So there were two directors, a man and a woman. They were married lecturers at university of Canberra. We had a swathe of clients or just a couple of us juniors in the office and the principal, she got diagnosed with breast cancer. And we, as a team, as her employees, we knew, we knew that she was wearing a wig. knew that she was spending her weeks. Jules (05:46) Yeah. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (05:58) you know, traveling up and down to Canberra and still maintaining her, her electric and her, and we were told under no uncertain terms, like it was so strict. We couldn’t tell anyone about that. Now that was 20, more than 20 years ago, right. And people’s attitudes have changed, but women in business, what’s also broken is that we don’t feel safe to tell our clients, to tell our suppliers, to tell her, you know, if you’re running a subscription based business, you can’t. Jules (06:01) for treatment. Yeah. Yep. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (06:25) feel confident to say, I’m going to be off the tools for a little bit because I’m actually in crisis. You know, it’s. Jules (06:29) That’s right. That’s right. And talking about insurance. ⁓ income protection is hopeless if you don’t have a regular income. So if you aren’t paying yourself a set wage and you are a sole trader, having done it myself and had them not cover me, I know it is so hard because they can’t kind of go, or your clients fall off a cliff, which so many people have. When you’re busy and working, you forget about the pipeline and suddenly all that work ends and you’ve got no clients for two or three months and that be really really stressful as well so there’s just so many things where you can’t switch off. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (07:09) correct. But you need to you absolutely need to switch off. And you need to not feel stigma and shame around it. You know, you need to know that you are not the only one. And it’s not a link to your, you know, entrepreneurial success, whether you’ve had a crisis or not. Yeah. Jules (07:11) Yeah, that’s right. I love that. No, that’s right. So what ex- did something happen though, Cathy, that really kind of tipped you over the edge and you went, right, that’s it, I’m going to create this now? Yeah, what happened? Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (07:32) That’s the day. Yeah. So, so there were two things that came together. So the first is that I just before starting the business, ⁓ celebrated my five year cancer free journey. So that was a huge, yeah. So I’ve personally be affected. I was running a business when I was diagnosed and it could be a whole episode around that story. ⁓ but after, but after five years, I knew Jules (07:41) Yeah. You’ve been through it. Right. I bet. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (08:01) that psychologically, safety wise, I’m like, okay, I’m really cured. I’m really done. It’s time to give back. So I knew that and I had that brewing and like in the first week after that anniversary of, know, officially being a survivor, I ran out and gave blood because you can’t do that when you’ve been, okay. So I did a lot of things. So I knew that there was something coming to me that allowed me to give back. So that was the first time. But why now versus any other time is actually my best friend. So Jules (08:23) Yeah. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (08:29) She, like you and I, runs a business and falls into those traps that I’ve mentioned. And so she called me and said, hey, I need to escape this domestic violent relationship. I need to come and stay with you. I’m getting on a plane. I’ll be there tomorrow. And so I have subsequently, since she’s arrived into my orbit, been standing with her the whole way and watching how many people either Jules (08:34) Yeah. Right. Yeah. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (08:57) don’t believe her or how the system’s re-traumatizing her by asking you to repeat her story many times or in order to get support she’s needed to have her text, you know, up to date and filed and all these things that when you’re in crisis you don’t think about turning around to call your accountant to make sure these are up to date. You want to keep your business going. It’s not high on the list, you know, when you’re fleeing from months. Correct. Jules (09:15) No, not high on the list. And then, and then, you know, add young kids into it if you are a single mum and you’ve got kids as well. You have literally no time to do anything other than, you know, particularly if it is something traumatic or a sickness or something as well. So God. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (09:32) Yeah, so I went enough’s enough. I’m at the right time where I can help. She’s at the time where she needs help. She’s not the only one. I was never the only one. And I’ve actually stopped all other aspects of my business. I’ve run a business for seven years before that. And I said, right, that’s it. Stopping that. This is my new and forever thing. So. Jules (09:52) my god, I love it. There is nothing like though, as a woman, a lane or, mean, particularly if you’re entrepreneurial and you’re always coming up with business ideas and I’m very bad with this, picking the one and saying I’m going to put all my energy into it is so satisfying, but also like the focus and you think of, know, if you spread across a whole lot of different things. So I’m absolutely delighted and I can see why you’ve done it. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (10:03) Yeah. Jules (10:19) So can you just take me back a little bit? You’ve alluded to being in PR and I know on your LinkedIn profile I could see you’ve also been in marketing for some pretty big organizations. Can you tell me a little bit about your life that has led to this big momentous moment that I’m so glad that you’re doing? Let’s start off by saying, where did you grow up and did you have brothers and sisters? Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (10:44) Yeah, so I have one younger brother and we grew up in the western suburbs of Sydney. I’m the daughter of two school teachers, two primary school teachers. So I often often joke that I was born with a whiteboard marker in my hand and I… this is a joke. But what like my parents and my extended family if you were to go through all of their… Jules (10:46) Right? Okay. ⁓ brilliant! Yeah. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (11:08) careers, you’d find doctors, you’d find nurses, you’d find police officers, you’d find teachers, you’d find social workers. So I am the black sheep in so far as I’m pretty much one of the only entrepreneurs and the only self employed in this way. But it doesn’t surprise me at all that I’ve ended up wanting to just help others and help others in this business way rather than being employed by a government department or something of that nature. So Jules (11:14) Right. It’s very brave of you though too, Cathy, because if you have everybody in your world who’s being paid a regular wage and you’ve gone out on your own, pretty brave I think ⁓ for you to do it. Were there any role models around of people who were running their own businesses? Wow. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (11:49) Do you what? Absolutely zero. So you know sometimes, yeah, so you know how you hear. So let’s say if mum’s in politics, you’ve got to, you know, pass into politics or if your mum’s an actor, you can go into that. So I didn’t have any of that. My whole world was education and frontline support workers. And so, yeah, they… Jules (12:04) Yes. What? Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (12:14) So I just knew inside myself that it was what I needed to do and knock down doors and was patient and persistent and yeah, really have carved my own path when it comes to my family, if that makes sense. Jules (12:29) my god, well done. And I can imagine that there’s little youngies who’ll be watching you in that group because all it takes is somebody to be doing something different for, you know, other people to get inspired to do it. Okay, so grew up with parents as teachers in Western Sydney and you went to uni? I think I saw that you went to uni. Yeah. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (12:45) Correct. I did. I did go to university. In fact, I know that one of the questions you warned me about was what’s kind of the quirky thing about you and perhaps I’ll reveal it here. And that is that is that I I actually went undercover as a uni student. So at the time there was a person doing a PhD and what they were looking at and was were interested in. Jules (12:59) Go on, tell me now. We can’t wait. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (13:13) is the transition and the skills that someone needed to go from the high school environment to thrive and succeed in the university environment. And what makes it what makes someone ready at 18 post school. Anyway, so because of this PhD work, they then looked for high performing students that were interested in going undercover as ⁓ first year out or undergrads. And so I put Jules (13:21) Okay. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (13:40) Yeah, so I my hand up for that. So I would go to school in the morning and do, know, do unit maths or whatever it was. Then I’d go into the school, you know, change rooms, get into plain clothes. And I’d drive myself to uni and I did uni and HSC or U12 at the same time. So I got… Jules (13:45) Yeah. Yeah. my god, so you’ve got to tell me more about that. What was that like? Did you love it? Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (14:03) It was fascinating. I loved it. So it was all about social psychology and it led to my communications PR degree that I did at Western Sydney University. And I absolutely thrived, I must say. Jules (14:09) Yeah. Right. Because I was going to say, I mean if the PhD was how do high school students cope, you clearly coped. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (14:24) I clearly coped and part of the reason I say undercover is that the deal was that we couldn’t reveal ourselves. So the lecturer, the tutors, the other students, no one was allowed to know because they weren’t supposed to try and identify us. They weren’t supposed to give us special treatment. Like we needed to be, you know, seen as just a part of the general undergrad population. So yeah, I walked away from that subject with a HD. Jules (14:33) no one knew. You’re right. Oh my god, that’s amazing, that reminds me… Well I don’t know whether I’m showing my age, but there used to be a show called 21 Jump Street, do you remember that? And they had undercover detectives who went into school. Similar, you and Johnny Depp, like that. Okay. So, yeah, go on. No, go on. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (14:55) Yeah, I do. Exactly. But in terms of my career, also asked me about that. So I describe it now on reflection 20 years plus later as a kaleidoscope. So at the time, I didn’t fully appreciate all the little pieces and how they’d fit together. But now I stand back and bring them into view. And the golden thread that connects them all has created Jules (15:24) Right? Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (15:32) all the conditions and all of the magic that’s led to Held and Free. So for example, again, I refer to that PR consultancy. One of the things, one of the clients I had, which at the time in my 20s, I thought was boring, was to run the annual report awards. So yes, there’s an annual event to run the annual report awards. And so I was tasked with sending out and bringing 300 people in a boardroom. We had very fancy sponsors at the time. Jules (15:38) Yeah. Yeah. Right! Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (16:01) CPA and try the counsellors and all these things. And so I used to have to read these annual reports. And so that, for example, has led me to be able to understand and really appreciate the business side of business. As an example, I worked for the Cancer Council for two years as a paid employee. So I understand what it takes to get educational resources out. Important in held and free. ⁓ Jules (16:12) Yeah. Yeah. Well, actually, just let me interrupt you there. When you were at the Cancer Council, when you were quite young, think, what did you learn? What did you learn about that kind of support? Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (16:31) Yeah. Yes. So how, how incredibly important it is, ⁓ for starters and what happens when you don’t have people and finances in your corner, which led me to working in insurance, right? But if we come back to the cancer council, ⁓ also, you know, this part you’ll love the importance of storytelling, the importance of vulnerability, the importance of content that connects all of that. learned quite early on. So. Jules (16:57) Yeah. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (17:04) It was very common for me to be out on a weekend, accepting those oversized novelty checks, giving the thank you and acceptance speeches. It was very common for me to interview survivors and their families that would then go into our grassroots PR campaign. Yeah. So and I was the youngest person at the time ever to be appointed into that role. But it came off the back of, as I said, having worked for the woman who was going through treatment at the time. So I went from working for a woman that had cancer Jules (17:11) Right. Wow, what an amazing grounding. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (17:33) to being at the counsellor council, to then many years later getting counsellor myself. So all of my bits and pieces, as I said, come together in this kaleidoscope in a way that I couldn’t possibly have imagined ⁓ as I was going through it. Jules (17:46) And also it feeds into that expression of lived experience. Boy boy, have you got all of it now. So you’ve seen it from all sides. So you said cancer and then you sort of said, and then obviously it led to insurance. What was that? Tell us why did that happen? Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (17:55) Correct. Yes, so I ⁓ like all good Aussies at the time did I took off overseas and worked in London and at that time I worked for the Richemont group. So Richemont has Cartier, Mont Blanc, Shanghai Tang, Alfred Dunhill. So I had this very bougie couple of years working in the luxury goods space and when I came home Jules (18:18) Okay. Right. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (18:26) I was just open to tamping. So we took a temp job and I landed at Zurich Financial Services, their office in Sydney. And I think, and it was in the life insurance space, so trauma, anti-pity, which, you you’ve spoken about and income protection. And I was like, ⁓ everything that I remember from working at the cancer council, having seen people struggling and then going into this, you know, obscene amount of wealth in London, right through to, well, hey, I, Jules (18:32) Right? Yep. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (18:56) I don’t think we’re talking about these policies. We’re not talking in a way that really connects to the people that need them. Here’s what I bring. And so they offered me a full-time role. And then that led me to have over 10 years of financial services in-house marketing experience. did Zurich, I did ING. I worked for ANZ, which owned the brand One Path. In ANZ, worked in the marketing team for the private bank. So I have all of this. really strong, solid, you like, financial services background, which then led me to other things. So it’s all just so connected. Jules (19:27) Yeah. Can you tell me a couple of stories about, ⁓ I don’t know, I’m kind of putting you on the spot, but any stories in your business career that kind of inform what you’re doing now in some way? Other than everything. ⁓ Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (20:52) that’s okay! Yeah, absolutely. And everything. OK, so I remember being at ANZ Bank and on the bus, I lived in the inner west. I lived in like out of time and I was traveling into Pitt Street head office and I came across this. This was must have been 2012, 2013 and I came across TEDx for the first time. TED and TEDx for the first time. Jules (21:08) Yeah. Okay. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (21:26) And I fell in love with this idea of telling a full story and fully explaining a concept kind of in 18 minutes. And I consider myself obviously not the first adopter because I’d been around for many years before that. before TEDx was cool, I was really into TEDx. So that then informed the way that I would write speeches. I went on to work for seven years in Jules (21:36) Yeah. Yeah, you win. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (21:55) the development of female thought leadership and working with people to write TEDx submissions and to write speeches that ended up on the TEDx stage. Yeah, so the business that I just closed to do this was the Thought Alchemist. So I was commercializing women’s stories and experience and TEDx stories were such an important part of that. And I see taking Jules (22:01) hang on what was that role that that sounds fascinating what was that Yes. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (22:22) the TEDx style and all the way back then and really taking one idea and bringing it through into everything we do at Heldam Free being so critical. So for example, there’s lots of information out there at the moment about coercive control. All right, it’s just something that’s impacting on us. There’s very little, if anything, out there right now about how does coercive control show up and what to look for if you’re also a business owner. Right. So, but, but taking that insight and then turning it into something that’s fully explainable, that will change hearts and minds, that will be so useful to the consumer of that, the reader of that, the watcher of that, the listener of that. I can trace that all the way back to that bus ride when I first heard my first ever TEDx talk. So yeah, that’s it. That’s an example of how that we’ve come to to held and free. Jules (22:52) Yes! Yeah. It’s amazing. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (23:22) And I’ve got so many others. Jules (23:22) Amazing. All right, well, I’m going to come back to them in a minute because I’ve realized that I’ve been pushing you along here and we haven’t talked enough about what Heldon Free does. So I know that what you’re trying to do in terms of offering that support, can you take me down the rabbit hole a little bit into what that actually looks like? What access do people have? What’s it going to do? Great. Okay. ⁓ Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (23:42) Yeah, I would, I would love to. Okay. So, ⁓ So there’s really three pillars of support that we want to provide. So one is around that education. So rather than needing to talk to chat GPT to get answers, rather than needing to go onto sites or read resources, which are for everyone. want to be able to have a specific set of resources that addresses the topics that matter. Jules (24:06) Mm-hmm. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (24:12) but specifically in a business context. So if you have an ABN, what it looks like to apply for financial support, what it looks like to get grants, what it looks like to identify coercive control, what it looks like to have a business safety plan, what it looks like to have your tech being surveyed and intercepting that. It all looks very different if you’re a woman who runs a business. So at the moment, there’s lots of generic advice. Jules (24:36) Yep. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (24:40) And then it just falls short for me. So the first arm is around this education. And that. Jules (24:45) And to do that, sorry, are you bringing in experts so that you’re going to have like a community of people to refer people to? Is that the idea? Okay. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (24:49) Absolutely. Absolutely. So I’m not a psychologist by training. I don’t intend to be, I’m not a medical doctor. I will never be. Um, so I’ll be leaning on and bringing together, um, community with a very specific goal of saying, but how does that apply to women in business? And then making those resources available. So that’s the education side. The second side is community, you might imagine around, for example, we’re holding a launch event. think it will be over by the time this podcast, um, launches. Jules (25:08) Yep. Yeah, brilliant. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (25:22) but to make sure that women don’t feel isolated and alone. And that’s been very deliberate, even in our branding. So if you were to look at women in crisis, if you were to do that as a Shutterstock search or a stock image search, or you were to look at some of our leading organizations that are helping in these spaces, the go-to are black and white images, they’re men, typically are male figures looking and posing and a woman in the… corner or woman looking very full on or you know in distress. Deliberately with my brand background, I’ve introduced yellow. I’m wearing it today and they’re all about women that look just like us. So the community side is about breaking down barriers and stigmas and having women say I went through that too. Here’s what helped me. You are genuinely not alone. We can tackle this together but in a way that’s uplifting. So that’s the community side. Jules (25:57) Yeah. Right. love it. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (26:19) I’m in the f- Yes! No! Go for it! Jules (26:20) And hang on a minute, wait, wait, wait. Sorry, I’ve got so many questions for you. So what is the practical side of that? Are you gonna be running Zooms? Are you running in-person events? How do people get into this community? Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (26:32) Yeah. So to start with it’s, it’s live events, which the first one for us. ⁓ well, the plan is to run them right around the country actually. Yeah. So, ⁓ not only with me creating them, but also don’t forget I came from the cancer council. So there’s Australia’s biggest morning tea, which is where hosts create little events right around the country. Jules (26:36) Yeah, in Sydney, presumably. Yep. Yeah, great. Yes, so you can do something similar. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (26:56) So I might do something like that. And then I’m toying with the idea of an awards program, which will allow people to be recognized within the community who’ve done incredible work in this space as well. So that’s coming. That’s all the community stuff. And then the third pillar I’m the most excited about, equally like the most scared about, but is going to make the biggest difference. So right from the start, I said to you that ⁓ Jules (26:59) Yeah, great. I love it. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (27:25) having resources, right, is so important. And when I mean resources, I mean financial resources. So pretending that crisis isn’t expensive is crazy. So there’s going to be a DGR status side to this business, which will allow, ⁓ like a registered charity component, which will then allow me to give grants to women. Jules (27:29) Yes. Yep. Sorry, what’s a DGR? Okay. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (27:51) to inject cash into their business so that they can continue their businesses. So what I want to be able to do is to say, right, you need five grand to pay that lawyer. Here it is. Have it, continue your business, thrive and survive beyond it because you matter. Because we know that women’s contribution to the economy is so significant. Like apart from all of the things that are happening to these women, and their health and their mental health and their physical health and their safety and their family structures. Jules (27:56) Wow, brilliant. Yes. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (28:20) If they don’t have the money to continue their businesses, the businesses won’t continue and we need them, right? And they give so much purpose. And so I want to Jules (28:26) Absolutely we do. 50 % of the world’s social enterprise is run by women. So, so important. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (28:33) Correct. Yeah. So I want, I want someone to reach out to me and say, Hey, I need five grand for a lawyer. And for me to go tell me their details. Here’s a grant. Here you go. And the criteria is going to be, an ABN holder. You’ve been a woman running a business and you need help. And I’m happy to pay for a virtual assistance service so that you can continue to make it. I’m happy to pay for your subscriptions for a year. Jules (28:45) my god, I love that. So, okay, so are you gonna, so you’ve got that pay it forward model, the donations. Have you also got some sort of high net worth women that are interested in backing this or are you doing this literally by yourself? Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (29:12) So I’m having increasingly having conversations with high net worth women who also can see the lot of value. Jules (29:16) Yeah, great. Well, they want to give back has been my experience. In fact, the higher and more successful they are, the more they want to give back, I think. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (29:26) I think so too. yeah, so I’m thinking grants, philanthropy route, but also putting my own dollars down. So to kickstart it, I’ve put, I’m going to invest, have invested 50,000 of my own money to give back. Cause it’s so, so important to me. So yeah, as I said, I’m so excited about this part because if I can, if I can help women and then they keep going and then they survive and recover and then like, yes. Jules (29:40) Wow, Kathy. You should… Yeah, you should be. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (29:56) People will be paying attention to these women because they deserve to be held so they can be free. Jules (30:02) Ugh. There are just so many people that I’ve had to watch businesses fail because of personal circumstances and just not being able to keep all those balls in the air and having to go and get a job. So I absolutely love it because there are women who are in roles that they never wanted to be in purely because they’ve got to get some cash in the door. And it’s just so wrong. And also, guess, what one of the things that I’m seeing anyway, and I’ve just done a little survey, of 370 odd women, actually I’ll share it with you because it’ll give you some insights into those female founders. But many of the ones I’m speaking to are 45 plus, which is actually 62 % of women business owners anyway. And there’s another whole thing that as you get older, not only is there the freedom, but there’s also the ill health that can come and… ⁓ Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (30:37) Yeah, please. Yeah. Jules (30:56) What was the other thing that I was thinking that ⁓ is the aging parents? And that is a massive thing where people are like, all I wanna do is run my business, but my mom has got dementia, is really sick, I’ve gotta look after her. You know, there’s just so much. I mean, I keep saying this is brilliant, but it’s absolutely fucking brilliant. Excuse my French. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (31:00) ⁓ 100%. Oh, thank you. Yeah. As I said, the idea arrived and I just knew it was right. And so I’m taking a massive risk, right? Like as with all startups, could fail spectacularly. I could be on this podcast and you’re going, that was too hard. Um, but yeah, I’m gonna, I’m gonna. Jules (31:22) Yep. Of course. And that’s fine if it is as well because you know what, Cathy, I’m a big believer in giving something a go. Not everything works. It doesn’t have to, but the principle of what you’re trying to achieve now will work anyway because the problem is there and it needs solving. So if it’s not held in for you, it’ll be something else, but I have a really, really good feeling. When you came up with the name, did you kind of go, oh my God, I know it’s gonna work now because I managed to get this name? Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (31:45) Correct. ⁓ yeah. I was, it was funny. You would know this, right? You find something. ⁓ Yes. And you like when you’re in that frenzy by the domains, by the eight reg check all the trademarks and you just kind of go, exactly. I’m like, it’s meant for me. ⁓ yeah. Jules (32:06) Yes! I know you’re like, can’t believe no one’s taken this already. I’m so excited. So what does this year look like for you? What are you going to do in 2026 to get this message out there? Obviously, other than lots of podcasts and interviews, being a PR chick, I’m expecting there’ll be a whole lot of publicity. But but what are the other plans for this year? Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (32:26) podcasts and interviews. Yes, being a PR. So putting, so it’s basically building those foundations. So I’ll probably work on the backend to give just as much as I’m going to talk about it, to be honest, these things take time. So yeah, setting up really solid foundations so that I can do it all so properly with all of the right compliance and all the right diligence and have the best conversations with the right partners, to vet the experts. Jules (32:41) Yeah. Yes. my god, well if I can help you… If I can help you in any way, you just come and let me know if you need pointing, you know, anybody to connect with you that I might know. However, and I’m sure any woman here who’d be listening would be saying the same thing, tell me a bit about how people can get involved. Is there, you know, how do they get hold of you if they’re in a bad spot? But I imagine that there’ll be a hell of a lot of women that’ll be, like I’m saying, how can I support this initiative? Because it’s, you know, something we all need to see out there. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (33:32) Yeah, I’d love that. So the first thing is, um, find me on LinkedIn and, you know, follow all of our socials. If you need help, there’s, um, there’ll be a form very soon for you to fill out some, details. My dream for the form, I’ve got to check it with the lawyers is we believe you. I don’t need to re traumatize you. don’t need a big bag. You know what mean? Like I don’t want to have, I want it to be really simple and. Jules (33:39) Yep. my god, I love it, Well maybe you can do I believe you with a tiny little microscopic asterisk that at the bottom says, as long as you’re telling me the truth. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (34:01) I know right responsible lending on things. So yeah, and then if you if you’re an expert in this space, let’s say you work with women and you can help them in these situations, right? Let’s say you’re a family lawyer. Let’s say you’re a conveyancer. Let’s say you’re a divorce specialist. Let’s say you’re a digital marketer or what it happens to be and you’re like, yeah, could lend my intellectual property. I could lend my thoughts. could lend some experience. then please get in touch. It’ll be so obvious how to do that when you jump on the website, which is heldfree.com. Jules (34:35) Okay, and ⁓ so LinkedIn and held free. And then, ⁓ and you’ve told me your quirky fact. Is there anything else that you would like everybody to know about this? Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (34:47) join me. Because I’m still so fresh and new and ideas are flowing and there’s no one path that I’m hell bent on other than, you know, the grads. I’m so open to partnerships and ideas and I think we are so genuinely better together. So if this has sparked something in you and you’re like, ⁓ she hasn’t thought of this or ⁓ I could help there or ⁓ know if if this light’s a fire in you as the listener ⁓ just reach out it’s still it’s still so malleable at this point Jules (35:21) Okay. What a brilliant thing to say. Okay, well this won’t be too long before this is out. Thank you so, so much for sharing this with me. I hope, I can’t wait to go out and share it with everyone actually. I’m actually for the first time gonna promote my podcast better than I’ve done before I think. So, you hopefully will get the, you know, I can get the word out there. But, absolutely love what you’re doing Cathy and thank you so, so much for even thinking of the idea and then taking it and following it through. Cause it’s something that I think is really badly needed. Kathy Rhodes – Held+Free (35:53) my absolute pleasure, Jules. And as I said, thank you for being the first person to pay attention and notice and have me on. I think there’s always going to be something really special about that milestone too.

Jules (00:13) Okay, Kelly Resendez, I am so excited to be able to interview you and find out about all the amazing things that you do. Thank you so much for agreeing to do this. Kelly Resendez (00:24) Absolutely, just totally blessed to be here. Jules (00:27) Okay, let’s start off by telling everybody, if you wouldn’t mind introducing yourself, telling people what you do and what your business is. Kelly Resendez (00:36) Yeah, absolutely. So I live in Northern California all the way across the world from you there in Australia. And I am the president of Minerva, which is a women’s femtech company that’s really trying to revolutionize women’s health. also am co-founder of GoBundance Women, which is a Jules (00:41) Woohoo! Yeah. Yeah? Kelly Resendez (00:59) elite mastermind community for just ambitious women here in the United States that are looking to scale without sacrifice. And then also a mom to two adult kids, which is my favorite role and writer, speaker, just wear a lot of hats in my life. But most importantly, just try to make a massive impact everywhere I go. Jules (01:22) which is of course why I love you straight away and I can’t wait to hear more about it. So let’s talk a little bit about disruption because I have called this particular series, She’s the Boss Disruptors. ⁓ I know that you are making change happen. ⁓ all over the place. want to know is there something that really is lighting you up that you’re trying to disrupt and I’m guessing it’s around FemTech but please tell me a little bit about you and what drives you. Kelly Resendez (01:48) Yeah! Absolutely. So I would say on a macro level, I really want to empower women. I believe that empowering women changes the world and makes it a better place. know, our leadership numbers are pathetic when it comes to the number of C-suite executives, founders, know, the amount of venture capital going to female founders. Jules (01:57) Yeah. Yep. Yep, I would agree. And I think you’re better in America than we are in Australia, so that’ll give you an idea. I was just speaking to someone and saying, in Australia, the Office of Gender Equality, or the Office for Women, have just come out and said we’re 26th in the world for gender equality and yet 4th in the world for tertiary education. So you’re doing better than us. Kelly Resendez (02:17) my goodness! ⁓ yeah. Yeah, well, I think that’s a big piece of it is that, you know, I don’t believe part of the disruption is in gender equality. I don’t think that there’s anything equal about men and women. I think we’re diabolically different and we’ve got to find a way to be able to navigate those differences in the workplace so that women that really want to be in a position of power or authority have that opportunity. Jules (02:44) Right. Kelly Resendez (02:58) And so one of the micro ways that I do that is through Minerva, which is really a platform that’s designed to provide telemedicine in all 50 states, hormone replacement therapy. And then also we’re developing a technology to really give women more personalized care on a daily basis so that we feel at our best. I believe part of the disruption comes from getting women Jules (02:59) Yeah. Kelly Resendez (03:26) back into their physical well-being so that their emotional and mental well-being thrives so that they want to apply for the promotion. They want to start the company. They believe that they can do it all. And I think that that’s really been taken away from women over the last 20 years. And we had a major change happen here in the United States yesterday when the FDA finally removed the black box warning. Jules (03:27) Yeah. Yes! Kelly Resendez (03:54) on estrogen, which is important. I don’t know that most of your listeners probably know, just as early as the 1900s, women were only living to age 50. I don’t think we were intended to live this long. And now that we do, we’ve got to be able to replace some of the hormones that deplete naturally over time so that we can protect our physical well-being. Jules (03:57) ⁓ gosh. Yeah. Yeah, so tell me a little bit more about Minerva then. I had thought it was maybe a product, but now it sounds like you’ve built like a platform for Health for Women. Yeah, so what is it? Talking to a GP or a specialist? Kelly Resendez (04:25) Yeah, it is. It’s telemedicine. Yeah. Yep. It’s talking to a doctor. Believe it or not, most of the people that specialize in OB-GYN care don’t actually have the education around hormone metabolism or titration and are not giving women what they need. I know I went the Western medicine route originally and was told I couldn’t have my hormones tested. you know, I believe functional medicine is really the key. Jules (04:36) Yeah. Right. Kelly Resendez (05:00) to being able to get people into the best shape of their life, which means they’re gonna be hormonally balanced. And so we provide telemedicine services in all 50 states, you know, really taking a look at, yeah, that means that they would meet with a doctor and really get online telemedicine. And then we would be testing their hormones, their thyroid, potentially their gut as well. Jules (05:06) Yeah. But what does that actually mean? That people can just book in… In person or online? Okay. Kelly Resendez (05:29) so that they can set themselves up for maximum longevity. Jules (05:29) Right. Wow, that’s amazing. why, how did that come about? Is this your baby? Are you the founder? Kelly Resendez (05:39) I am the co-founder, ⁓ my co-founder, yes. So I would tell you that I’ve always been passionate about empowering women. So through GoBundance, Jules (05:42) Okay, so how did it come about? me what the light bulb moment was. Kelly Resendez (05:53) through my platform, which is called Big Voices, that was actually the name of my last book as well, that you can check out on Amazon. I’ve always wanted to empower women. My journey and my career has taken me to heights that I would say a lot of people would think would be impossible, but I was really set up from my parents just in, my mom was a. Jules (06:17) All right, we’re going to talk about that in a minute. Kelly Resendez (06:18) investor, entrepreneur, and so I was given a lot of, you know, I would say of the tools and resources that allowed me to get where I wanted to go, but there were so many women that didn’t have that same experience as me. And so one of the things that I really did was I helped women with managing overthinking, self-sabotage, reducing emotional triggers so that they could experience joy and reduce self-suffering. Jules (06:26) the role modeling. Kelly Resendez (06:46) And what I found was you can only go so far if women don’t have energy and physical well-being. And so I met Dr. Betty Murray, who’s one of the United States leading hormone metabolism doctors through my mastermind. And we connected. And being a strategic advisor in the business world and helping companies scale, we really just had a great connection. And over time, I realized that Jules (06:46) Right. Right. Kelly Resendez (07:15) I really wanted to focus on this area so that we will be able to then take those women and empower them into greater achievements in their career and with their families. And what I know to be true is that when women are happy, conscious and thriving, our children, our partners, our businesses, the world in general becomes a better place. Jules (07:18) Right. Yep. Yeah, which is just so fantastic. ⁓ So you’ve alluded to your background and some of the other businesses that you have built. Let’s go right back if you’re up for it. Let’s start with you, maybe eight or nine. So you’ve just said your father was an entrepreneur or something. So tell me about, so dad’s an entrepreneur, what did mum do? And do you have brothers and sisters? Kelly Resendez (07:56) Yes! Yes. Yeah, my mom was a real estate investor and helped run my dad’s heating and air conditioning business. And so I always say I kind of started in business when I was about four. You know, it started in office and by the time I was probably eight, I was doing invoicing, filing, you know, all of the things in supporting, yeah, supporting my parents’ business. And so definitely blessed in that regard. And then I also Jules (08:09) ⁓ wow! Right? ⁓ lucky you. Kelly Resendez (08:32) You know, was able to experience just a level of abundance without stress. My parents really never worried about money. They never said things like, we can’t afford that or, you know, no, that’s impossible. Like it was truly a sky’s the limit household and just extremely, extremely blessed for that. Jules (08:50) Right. You are. Very lucky. And were you good at school? Did you enjoy school? Yeah? Kelly Resendez (08:57) Yeah, yeah, I was definitely, well, I was a classic overachiever. You know, I will tell you that I am a recovering perfectionist, so I wanted to be the center of attention for, you know, the first half of my life, and that served me well in school, because when you’re trying to please, you know, you tend to do better in school as well. Jules (09:02) Right! Yeah, well, I mean, I guess as a teacher, what you want is the kids who really want to learn and want to impress. OK, so then did you go on to uni after that or straight into business? Kelly Resendez (09:23) Yeah. You know, was combination of both. So I had an opportunity to start at a bank when I was only 18 and I spent the next 16 years at that bank. I got into the mortgage industry and being that overachiever, I definitely did well. By the time I was in my early 20s, I was earning close to Jules (09:38) Okay. Yeah? Kelly Resendez (09:52) you know, seven figures at that point. And so definitely did very well career wise. I was also going to college simultaneously and then stayed in the mortgage industry until, you know, 2011 when I made, you know, what was my first big career pivot. But I’ll tell you, yeah. Jules (09:54) Wow. So tell us, what prompted the pivot first? What had happened that you decided you didn’t want to keep going at the bank? Kelly Resendez (10:16) Yeah! Well, the first thing that I would say is that in 2004, I had my spiritual awakening and it came from my mom getting diagnosed with dementia at a very young age. I lost my grandmother from cancer and then I had my daughter right around that same time. And one of the things that I will tell your listeners is that when you hear that statement, when the student is ready, the teacher appears. Jules (10:26) Okay. Right. Yeah. Yes! Kelly Resendez (10:49) That has been the common thread in my life. first book, the first book that I read that just absolutely changed everything was Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle because I had never ever heard before that I was not my thoughts. And what I really realized was that I wasn’t my brain either and that there was some deeper part of me that existed. And so over the last 21 years, I’ve really been in Jules (10:52) Okay. Right. Kelly Resendez (11:17) in this consciousness space doing the work, you know, just improving my self-awareness and the impact that I make. And through that journey, you know, I stayed in mortgage for, you know, about seven years after that. And, you know, I had created a lot of worldly success, which meant I also had a lot of, you know, worldly expenses too. And so mortgage served me very well. And so I always had that tug, that soul. Jules (11:32) Right. Right. ⁓ Kelly Resendez (11:47) you know, that soul’s cry for more, like, you you need to make a bigger impact, there are things that you need to do, and so in doing that, I recognized that I wasn’t really living in my purpose, although I was making a difference, and I was speaking already, you know, I was already teaching people how to, you know, I would say… Jules (12:08) around finance, was it, around finance and property at that stage? No. Kelly Resendez (12:10) No, no, to be honest, I was teaching people, even though I was in finance, I was teaching people that who they were being was just as important as what they were doing. So I was already in kind of the energy work of like, hey, how you vibrate is gonna create the success that you attract into your life. And I taught a lot of business strategy as well. But that really got me to this place where I was an authority. Jules (12:17) Yeah. right message. Yeah. Kelly Resendez (12:40) in the industry and it opened up a door to become an executive at a company that was scaling quite considerably at that time in 2011. And so for the last four, yeah. Jules (12:45) Right. What kind of a company was that? I’m interested in the actual journey and the different things that kind of happen in life to end up where you are now. yeah. ⁓ Kelly Resendez (12:55) Yeah! Well, we had a mortgage division. so initially, I went over as an executive and helped run our mortgage division. But over time, we actually had moved into the consumer finance space. So we’re the largest solar financing company in the United States. And we do home improvement financing. Yep. Yep. For residential solar panels. And our mission was to increase sustainability. Jules (13:20) so solar panels this is ⁓ Kelly Resendez (13:29) and I’m all about world positivity. Like it better be good for the people or the planet and it needs to impact both. And so over the last 14 and a half years, you we scaled from about a hundred employees to 1500, you know, to a multi-billion dollar company. I recently just semi-retired. I’m still a strategic advisor there and, you know. Jules (13:30) Yep. Wow. Kelly Resendez (13:53) will always be, because it is like my family and being a part of growing that company and running multiple divisions has really allowed me to kind of take that expertise into other businesses simultaneously. Jules (13:57) Right. Okay, so then talk to me about GoBundance and how that came about and then we’ll move on to Minerva. But yeah, how did you, because I’ve interviewed Mandy for this podcast series as well, so people will be able to listen to her story. But tell me about how you and Mandy connected and how you ended up getting involved in that. Kelly Resendez (14:12) Yeah! Yes! Yeah, honestly, GoBundance, because we had built GoBundance before Mandy came into the picture. so, yeah, one of the big reasons why I was seeking out a mastermind initially was extreme loneliness, to be honest. Yep. And so I started to look around and I was trying to learn how to be lonely. Jules (14:36) Right. which is a classic for so many women who are running businesses, I think. Kelly Resendez (14:58) And somehow I forgot that I was the creator of my own reality. And so instead of finding something else, we built it. And so our other business partner, Kathy and I, and amongst a few others, just put together amazing women that also felt that same way, that they wanted to grow their businesses, but they didn’t want to sacrifice their health, their relationships, their finances, or anything else as a result of that. And then met Mandy through that journey and… Jules (15:00) Aww. Yeah. Kelly Resendez (15:27) talk about just divine partnerships. If there’s one thing that I would tell everybody listening is who you choose to be in business with impacts every other area of your life. So incredibly blessed to have her in my life. We actually co-host a podcast as well. Jules (15:40) No. Yes, which I’m going to be on. have to say I booked myself in for next year. I guess what I’m interested in is why, so it’s explaining to the women who are listening a little bit more about GoBundance and how it works and why you set it up because the loneliness thing, I mean, I’m exactly in your wheelhouse. That’s why I set up She’s the Boss because I think if you’re running an established business, Kelly Resendez (16:54) Yay! Yay! Yeah, absolutely. Jules (17:21) And there’s not a lot of groups out there for an established business when you’re over 45. There’s lots for business moms, there’s lots for startups, but where’s the next level? So it’s something I’m very aligned with. So tell everyone. Kelly Resendez (17:26) you Yeah, so before the mastermind, I had been involved in coaching programs. I had gone to events where like a guru type person would feed into you, but I’d never been in proximity to women that were mentoring one another. And so that’s truly what a mastermind is. It’s the collective wisdom and experience of everyone in the group. And so in GoBundance, you know, we have weekly calls about scaling your business. Jules (17:40) Yep. Right. Yeah. Kelly Resendez (18:06) We do group coaching and then we put women into pods of four to six other women that get to become one another’s board of advisors. So for myself personally, when I stay lonely, it wasn’t because I didn’t have connection. It was because I always felt like I was too much. There are plenty of women out there that fall into the feel like they’re not enough category. That was not me. Jules (18:26) Right? Kelly Resendez (18:31) I was always, I’m like, I’m gonna write another book, I’m gonna speak here, I’m gonna do this, I’m gonna do that. And the majority of people in my life were kinda like, when are you gonna slow down? And I wanted to be surrounded by other women that were more similar to me, that really wanted this next level, this fifth gear, that might be in their life, where most of us all really are. Jules (18:41) Yeah right. Kelly Resendez (18:57) magnetized to success. And we talk about neuroscience and we talk about quantum physics and we talk about, you know, who we’re being as a part of what our success is. And so again, it just really is that elite mastermind community that’s designed to meet women where they are and allow them a safe space. Yeah, a safe space to receive feedback, to celebrate. Jules (18:59) Yeah. and accelerate the scaling. Kelly Resendez (19:24) Right? Because that’s another big part of the loneliness is that you don’t have anybody to tell if you, you know, close a big deal or you get a big check or whatever, you know, whatever that might be because we don’t want to make other people feel like they’re small. And so it’s this weird paradox that we get stuck in. And I think as women, one of the one of the greatest reasons why I believe that we sabotage ourselves is that Jules (19:26) Yeah! people feel smaller. Yeah. Kelly Resendez (19:53) We’re afraid to ask for help. Part of that is, I don’t know who to ask for help. And if you’re a part of a community, then you know, like you’re surrounded with hundreds of other women that might’ve already done something like that. And you can ask them for help. And you can really be able to, you know, get the feedback that you need instead of the opinions. You know, there’s a big difference between feedback and opinions. Jules (20:03) Yeah. Yeah. Kelly Resendez (20:21) And so one thing that we really practice is curiosity. Because I know if you need my feedback, I know you already know the answer. But I am just gonna be there to ask you more questions, to maybe just create some new ideas or things like that for you to be able to determine what the next best step is. Jules (20:42) Yeah. I think that’s brilliant and I think it’s so important as you say that you get to meet peers who are on a similar level so you can celebrate and not have, I think Mandy said it perfectly when she said she’d come home and told her neighbor that she’d bought this apartment block and her neighbor said, well wouldn’t that be nice? And she was like, I need to talk to other women that I can actually, that can relate to that. Okay, ⁓ so when did you set up Go Abundance then? How long ago was that? Kelly Resendez (20:51) Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. 2017. Jules (21:16) okay. So reasonably recent as well. And then tell us now about Minerva. So you’re doing GoBundance and you’re in the mortgage world. How did you pivot out of that one? Kelly Resendez (21:19) Yes. Yeah, so being in FinTech, which I absolutely loved, it was a great experience. Again, that sole pull for you need to make a bigger impact in the world. And quite honestly, it came through getting quiet enough to really see that. So I semi-retired April 1st of 2025 and gave myself a couple months. And I literally, yeah. Jules (21:55) Kelly, sorry, I just, have to laugh and say, I mean, I’m looking at my watch, it’s still 2025, you didn’t retire for very long. But I can understand the wanting to slow down. Kelly Resendez (22:00) Yeah, I know. It was funny because I was dabbling. was like, yeah, I was in curiosity. I knew that I’m still a strategic advisor there. I have GoBundance Women. I have a couple other companies that I have helped advise. And so I definitely have plenty of things to do. I just finished my third book, which is coming out in the spring of 2026 called The Frequency of Abundance. Jules (22:27) Congratulations. Brilliant. Kelly Resendez (22:30) You know, I’ve got another mentorship program and so definitely not a shortage of opportunities, but I kind of took a couple months and went to Europe for a month and got really still. And the one thing that kept coming up for me was that the first half of my life was really about impacting people and the second half of my life needed to focus on fixing broken systems. Jules (22:52) Yeah. Kelly Resendez (22:59) And I believe our healthcare system is broken. Jules (23:05) I believe it is too in America. Just hearing the stories that I hear, forgetting even about that, just the cost involved and that you can’t, if you break your leg and you haven’t got insurance, that kind of blows my mind, know, because we get everything free. Kelly Resendez (23:20) Yeah, but I think when you really look at it, we’ve made such advancements in treatment and we’ve really stopped researching prevention and really dedicating a massive amount of time to prevention. And with my mom’s journey, I dove into neuroscience, I dove into physical wellbeing, I dove into the differences between Western cultures and cultures that… Jules (23:28) Yeah. Right. Kelly Resendez (23:47) you know, consume less animal protein or blue zones, other things. And so I’ve always been really fascinated with the longevity space and then being a patient myself in functional medicine, my paramenopause and menopause journey was a cakewalk in comparison to what other women experience. So only about 7 % of women in the United States are on hormone replacement therapy and the truth is the 100 % of women need to be. Jules (23:57) Yeah. Yeah. should be on it. ⁓ Kelly Resendez (24:17) proven now that this is a longevity, you know, like basically regimen that estrogen is your protector. And so all of the fears, all of the miseducation and research that have been shared, you know, we need to reeducate people about the benefits of really utilizing hormone replacement to optimize your overall wellbeing. And we’ve always looked at it as symptom management. Like when you hear Some of the greatest myths like it causes breast cancer. No, estrogen does not cause breast cancer. It’s how your body’s detoxifying itself of estrogen that might lead to certain things. And then, you know, other myths are just that it is for symptoms. Well, again, estrogen’s your protector. That’s like, we’ve seen a spike in osteoporosis because of the black box warnings. And so I believe wholeheartedly, like, that’s what Minerva’s here to do. Jules (24:52) Yeah. Yep. Kelly Resendez (25:13) Not only do we want to provide telemedicine, but we’ve got a technology coming out for women that’s going to really give them better personalized care on a daily basis. And then we want to become a flywheel for women’s data. And we have very little research or education in the medical industry going towards it. And we’ve got to change that. Jules (25:23) fantastic. Yeah. ⁓ fantastic. Love, love, love what you’re doing. Okay, ⁓ so, is Minerva now going to be, is that your big kind of hairy audacious goal moving forward now? Kelly Resendez (25:44) That’s my big thing. That is my life. Yes. Yes. And you know… Jules (25:48) Fantastic, where do you want to see it go? Like you’re already in 50 states, and obviously one of the things you need to do is get that 7 % to a much higher percentage. My dad was an obstetrician and gynecologist, and told me, I remember telling me about HRT 30 years ago, 20 years ago, and. Kelly Resendez (25:55) Yeah! Okay. It was great 30 years ago! Jules (26:10) And I know, and my mum being on it all the way through, and when I started getting perimenopause, saying to my mum, because you know, they say that with birth and everything else, speak to your mum, because you’ll probably mimic her, and I said, what was your menopause like? And she said, I don’t remember having any symptoms at all. I think it just passed me by. Kelly Resendez (26:26) Yeah, exactly. Yep. No, that’s amazing. No, it’s definitely going to be the main focus. And one of the things that I love about business strategy is that you can own multiple companies and not have maximum involvement in them. But this is the one that I’m going to spend the majority of my time in now. Jules (26:49) Well I absolutely love that. if somebody is listening to this and they love the sound of it, whether they’re in Australia or America, is there a way that people can get involved? Kelly Resendez (26:56) Yeah. Absolutely, know few things number one if they’re in America they can just go to get hormones now That’s our main site for women that are interested in finding out a little bit more about hormone replacement therapy And then for anyone else just Minerva project comm you know our technology will be accessible across the world when it comes out and so you know I missed answering one of your questions, which is what do you really want Minerva to do but Jules (27:07) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Kelly Resendez (27:28) We want tens Jules (27:29) what do want it to do? Kelly Resendez (27:29) of millions of women on our technology that are really utilizing the daily approach to living your best life. A lot of us don’t realize the importance of sleep, nutrition, exercise, meditation, all of the other things that really go along with physical and emotional well-being. so utilizing AI and symptom tracking and really just a lot of data that we would collect from wearables, we’re going to be able to make a lot of great recommendations for women to improve. Jules (28:05) So, you’re, are you specifically with Minerva focusing on menopause, perimenopause, that kind of age group? Or are you taking women through pregnancy as well and that kind of younger? Right. Kelly Resendez (28:12) I would say, yeah. No, I would definitely say for today, it’s that 40 plus crowd. However, one of the major initiatives that I would say is that we need to start testing women’s hormones at a younger age because if women are estrogen dominant, we could do something about that today and we might be able to make a bigger impact. Jules (28:20) Yeah. Younger. Kelly Resendez (28:40) on the long-term breast cancer numbers that are out there. So there’s a lot of pieces to this, but we’re not, you know, we’re really focused more on the paramenopause and menopause. End of life, yeah. Cause you’re pretty much post-menopausal until you leave. Jules (28:51) Yeah, well, it’s incredibly topical at the moment. Yeah, that’s right, that’s right, and boy boy, it’s so good not having periods and not having hot flushes anymore, I can’t even begin to tell you! Kelly Resendez (29:04) my gosh, yes. Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. And you know, one of the things that we didn’t talk about, you know, as far as the cost of not doing something is number one, loss in productivity is huge, you know, in the workplace. Once women do start experiencing some of the challenges. The second piece is the astronomical amount of unnecessary medical intervention. Jules (29:14) Yeah, yeah, talk to me about all of it. Yeah. Kelly Resendez (29:33) So for example, I knew that one of the symptoms of menopause when my estrogen went down could be heart palpitations. So when I got them, I just went back to my functional medicine doctor, we fine-tuned my hormones, and I was great. I have a friend that didn’t know that and ended up in the emergency room twice, then ended up in the cardiologist office over a three-month period of time. Jules (29:42) yeah right ⁓ god. Kelly Resendez (30:01) getting unnecessary testing and whatnot to only have found out that she went into early menopause. And so there are so many things, and then you add in the number of psychiatric challenges that women have in their 40s and 50s, divorces, job loss, et cetera, just all stemming from the fact that we don’t feel like ourselves. And I believe, and this is the name of, Jules (30:09) right Yeah. Kelly Resendez (30:27) ⁓ a new book that’s coming out in the next six months too, a different one that Dr. Betty and I wrote together that’s called Just Right. Like, I believe women need to feel just right. enough with the I don’t feel good enough, I don’t feel great enough, I’m too much, I’m not enough, whatever it might be. Like, how come we can’t just feel just right? And part of this is getting into balance. Jules (30:35) bright Yeah. Wow. Well, you’ve got an amazing mission, but it’s one that we’re all going to benefit from. So I do love it. I’ve got one more question for you. It is not really related. It doesn’t have to be related to business, but a journalist many years ago suggested I ask it and I’ve loved the answers I’ve got. And the question is, is there a quirky fact about you that not everybody knows that you’d be up for sharing? Kelly Resendez (30:59) Yes! Yeah! Okay. Jules (31:20) and it can be anything. I know it’s a good one, isn’t it? It really makes you think. Kelly Resendez (31:20) my goodness. A quirky fact. I’m like trying to think of a quirky one. Holy moly. Yeah. Jules (31:28) I can give you some examples of people who… ⁓ One person who’s a very senior CEO and very successful told me that she’s a ⁓ rev head, what they call a rev head here, so she’s obsessed with cars and on weekends goes off to those kind of car rally things. There was another woman who said, I don’t know if you know the Graham Norton show, but she had been the first person on the big red chair, which is quite a big thing in the UK. Another woman said she didn’t have a belly button. So it can be anything. Kelly Resendez (31:59) my those are all, yeah. You know, I would say that I am a country girl at heart. And so ⁓ I grew up in a small town in California. So hunting and fishing and you know, doing all of the things. And so honestly, like my favorite thing to do, which most people would not not know, is that I love deep sea fishing. And if I am on a boat in the middle of nowhere, Jules (32:06) Yeah, living in New York. Yeah. Kelly Resendez (32:28) I am the happiest person that you could imagine. And so I can go from boardroom to boat like that and just totally make a major transition. So I am, I have a boat myself and I’m on the water a lot and it’s Jules (32:39) Wow, that- Is deep sea fishing like marlin? Is that the kind of fish? my god, so you’re the one who stands on the back of the boat with all the things to hold it because the fish is so huge. Wow, Kelly, there you go. Kelly Resendez (32:47) Yeah, tuna, marlin. mean, there’s rooster fish like all over. Yep. All the things. Yep. And I’ve taken my kids with me since they were born as well. And so my son is definitely he’s right there in the same boat as me ⁓ is like literally. And we just absolutely love it. So part of my part of my journey is always like, how do I align my life? Jules (33:08) Wow. Ha Kelly Resendez (33:15) with some of my hobbies. So I’ll probably be getting a place here in Florida pretty soon where I can do that or Cabo or someplace like that. Jules (33:25) I reckon, but it sounds to me like they should be a trip to Australia and the barrier reef. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We’re going… I know. We’ll have to talk to Mandy. Maybe there’s some way we can run some retreat together or something. Wouldn’t it be fun? Anyway, okay, Kelly, you have been fabulous. Thank you so, so much for ⁓ doing the interview today and sharing some of the things that you’re going to disrupt. I love it. Kelly Resendez (33:29) I would- I’m in! I am in! ⁓ I would love it. So fun. Mm, I love it too. And I’m just grateful to be here. And I know, you your listeners out there, you can always check out my page at kellyrazendes.com as well. That’s gonna have my new book that’s coming out here in the spring. And hopefully, you know, your listeners will check it out and tap into the frequency of abundance with me, which is, you know, kind of encompasses all of the things that we talked about today. Jules (33:54) you Brilliant. Fantastic, and when the book’s out, do let me know and I’ll let everybody know. I’ll share it to my community. Kelly Resendez (34:21) I will, absolutely. And thank you, because I don’t think that we’re ever going to make any progress until we have more disruptors like yourself standing up and saying, not anymore. Jules (34:35) very true. Thanks so much, Kelly. Kelly Resendez (34:37) Thank you.

Jules (00:14) I’m very excited by this episode for She’s the Boss Disruptors, which is my new little series, because I have met an amazing woman called Philippa Dobbin, who helps women with politics. And I am really, really excited to have you as my guest today. So thank you so much for agreeing to do this, Philippa. Phillipa (00:33) Thanks for inviting me. I’m excited. Jules (00:35) Yeah, that’s going to be great. Okay, so let’s start off with why don’t you tell everybody what it is that you do and ⁓ a little bit of your why. Phillipa (00:45) Yes, okay. So I am the Chief of Staff at Women for Election and been working with Women for Election for about three years, but a lifelong politics nerd. Grew up talking politics around the kitchen table and have watched Insiders since episode one. And I am a huge fan of Australia’s democracy. And I think I love the… Jules (00:57) Okay You Yes. Phillipa (01:11) I love politics. and I voted all different ways throughout my life. So I am genuinely politically neutral in the sense of what do I think? I’m also the deputy chair of two not-for-profit boards. So I’m the deputy chair at Consent Labs, which is a organisation for young people by young people to prevent sexual violence through education about consent. Jules (01:17) that’s interesting. Wow. Phillipa (01:41) And I’m also on the board of and the deputy chair, just recently appointed deputy chair at Dress for Success in South Wales ACT, which is a charity to help women achieve economic independence through to helping them to get styled and dress for finding a job. And then when they get the job, we help them with their first couple of outfits. So. Jules (01:41) Wow. Phillipa (02:05) So yeah, so I’m squarely in the not-for-profit space at the moment, having spent ⁓ most of my career in corporate, and now I feel like I can apply that to, I think, important societal issues. And I guess when I left corporate, set out to, one of my goals was to do interesting things and meet interesting people. I was blessed to have an amazing career, and I did meet amazing people, but I guess now I’m in that stage of my career where I’m thinking about legacy and how to impact Jules (02:05) Just beautiful. Yeah. Phillipa (02:35) I guess the big, ⁓ what do they call them? Wicked problems. I wanna be a part of that. I wanna be a part of helping to solve and be involved in a positive way. And there’s a lot to worry about in our world today, but you can do something about it. And I wanna be a part of it and I wanna be involved. So that’s a bit of my why. Jules (02:39) Yep. Absolutely. you know, yeah, and it follows what I’m noticing as well. And we’ve just done a survey of 320 women that agreed with it, that we, there’s something that seems to happen when you leave your job that you want to have that impact. You want to do something that is a passion. So, you know, I love what you’re doing, my goodness, they’re all really, really important causes. So, ⁓ let’s talk a little bit about what’s going on in the system that needs and why it needs fixing. And then after that, I will get you to tell me about your career because it sounds fascinating. But let’s start off with and I don’t mind if we talk about all three because they all sound amazing. ⁓ I had you pegged just for women for elections. Now you’ve got these other two. It’s like, wow, we need to talk about all of it. But so but let’s talk first about politics. ⁓ What do you want to disrupt and why and what do you think is broken in the system? It’s kind of a Phillipa (03:24) Good. Ha Yeah. Yeah. Jules (03:51) I imagine most women will know the answer, I’m very interested to hear your take on it. Phillipa (03:54) Yes. Well we try at Women for Election not to say the system is broken. It’s a bit ⁓ sick. that can be easily fixed by participation. so ⁓ the thing for women, and there’s multiple studies worldwide by King’s College, by the United Nations, by the World Economic Forum, that women’s participation in politics and democracy Jules (04:01) That’s very kind of you. Phillipa (04:24) doesn’t just improve outcomes for women, but it improves outcomes for society. So, know, hmm. Jules (04:29) In fact, Julia Gillard did a post just this morning saying exactly that. Stop thinking about women’s stuff as being helping women and think about it helping everyone. Phillipa (04:33) ⁓ there you go. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, whether it’s higher GDP and more labour participation through policy development, better health, better education, ⁓ lower corruption, know, women are sticklers for process. ⁓ And so we want to do things well. And that’s a that’s a positive and a negative for women. So because we are socialised to think that we have to have all of the qualities or we have to be perfect. Jules (05:07) Yes, big problem. Phillipa (05:08) we just tend not to, just go, I have to be ready. I have to be ready and men will have men. Yes. And men will, you know, I have to do a course. So I have to, you know, I have to know how to do it. And if I’m going to do it, I want to do it well. And men are just a bit more inclined to go, I’ll have a crack. I’ll just have a crack at it. You know, there’s a, many years ago, there was a study that they put out a job ad and they had 10 different criteria and it was exactly the same job. And, ⁓ Jules (05:13) And it has to be perfect. Yeah. Phillipa (05:36) Women said, I have nine out of the 10, I’m not ready. And men had, I have three out of the 10, I’ll learn the seven on the, I’ll learn the rest on the job. And there’s no difference between men and women. It’s very much the way we’re socialized. It’s very much the way that we think about ourselves. And so, you know, we just want to change that. We want to change the conversation. And so many women are already involved in politics and community, whether they realize it or not. Jules (05:40) Yes. Four. Good job. Yeah. I was gonna say… Phillipa (06:05) There’s a very famous philosophical quote, and I can’t remember the guy’s name, very ancient Greek philosopher who said, you may not be interested in politics, but politics is interested in you. We are all involved in some, if you’ve got three people in a room, there’s politics. And so we, you know, for me in my corporate career, the more senior I got, the more I called it strategic agility, the more you had to get things done through relationships and allyships and Jules (06:16) I like that. Yep. Yep. Phillipa (06:34) and ⁓ meetings before the meetings and all of those sorts of things where you built those trusted relationships. And women are very good at building trusted relationships. And so, it frustrates me a little bit to think that we think so poorly of the word politics when it’s really just a way of getting things done. And so many women are involved in their communities. They’re in the tuck shop at school. They’re running their sports clubs. Jules (07:00) Yeah, they’re doing the childcare board. Phillipa (07:03) They’ve got kids at home, they have professional careers, they run dog clubs, you know, they are so already embedded in society. And yet when it comes to thinking about even running for local government, which we’re deeply embedded in, they just go, no, I couldn’t do that. And it’s like, you’re already a leader. You’re already a leader in your, in your, you know, your little community. Jules (07:26) Yeah. Phillipa (07:27) So what’s the difference? And the difference is that they don’t think they’re ready. And we’re here to tell you that you are. ⁓ Jules (07:29) And… which is so good. And I do think that women are very community minded, exactly as you say. So it is a lens that we want to bring to politics. ⁓ But tell me a little bit more about Women from Elections, because I was really fascinated that you are helping women get in at that local level and what to do and how to do it, which I think is the first step. Phillipa (07:39) Mm. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, very much. So Women for Elections started about 10 years ago and it’s always had the same mantra which is to help women feel equipped and inspire them to run for all levels of government, politically neutral. We don’t care what stripe you are, we just want to see more women represented and yes we do have Jules (08:03) Mm-hmm. Phillipa (08:20) a lot of women, there are a lot more roles at local government level. There’s over 2000 across Australia. And when you think about federal in the lower house, it’s 100 and I’m going to get the number wrong, but you know, 170 odd. Jules (08:27) Wow. I’m not going to be able to correct you so don’t worry. Phillipa (08:38) And the facts are that about 18 % of people who start their political careers in local government end up in federal politics. So it’s a fantastic way to get, if you’re interested in state politics or federal politics, a lot of a great place to start is local government. So our CEO now, Alicia Heath, she joined in 2019 and became the inaugural CEO. And she… Jules (08:56) Hmm. right? Phillipa (09:07) worked with a lady called Ruth McGowan, who you might have heard, Cathy McGowan, her sister was the very first independent member for Indi. And a lot of Cathy and Ruth’s model is now used by independents to very successfully become ⁓ to run for office. So Ruth wrote a book called Get Elected and we’re very proud to have worked closely with Ruth. She’s amazing and an amazing contributor to all sorts of ⁓ political office and Jules (09:15) Rice. Phillipa (09:37) So we ⁓ partnered with her and ⁓ ran a program called Equip. And it’s its name says we’re here to help you be equipped to office. ⁓ Its primary purpose is not to not another course, not something you have to qualify for, but to help you understand what are the basic things you need to do to get set up to run for office. ⁓ If you’ve got a couple of things, Lissia calls it the three P’s Jules (09:44) Right? Yeah. Phillipa (10:04) if you’ve got a why, we can teach you the how. And At the end of the day, it’s a big to-do list and women love a to-do list. We all love a to-do list. There’s nothing more satisfying. 100 days out, here’s your to-do list. And we talk about it’s a six hour course, it’s run over two weeknights or in person. We can run in person. We’ve been all around Australia in the last couple of years, from the Torres Strait Islands to Cana Nara, to Perth, to Tasmania, to Sydney, to Melbourne, to Geelong. ⁓ Jules (10:12) We do. You’re right. Right? Phillipa (10:36) So, and that’s through the auspices of a wonderful Women in Public Office grant from ⁓ the federal government. They’ve allowed us to do that. So back to the Equip course. So it goes through things like, do you do a flyer? ⁓ How do I do fundraising? How do I get friends and family? How do I set up volunteering? ⁓ What are the things I need to think about? ⁓ So we have, that is our, if you like, our flagship product. ⁓ And no, it’s all free. It’s all free. So. Jules (11:06) Is it, does it cost, Philippa, for women to do this? wow, so there’s absolutely, I can think already of about three or four women that I know in Choose the Boss that would love to get into politics, so this is great, yes. Phillipa (11:19) Yeah, yeah. ⁓ Yeah, so it’s all free. ⁓ That’s a very good question. And ⁓ that’s through the auspices of the Office for Women and the Women in Public Office grant. And we want to keep this as accessible as possible. We go and I think we go and meet women where they’re at. Jules (11:30) Yeah, great. Phillipa (11:41) whether it’s online or in person. ⁓ And the Office for Women’s grant has enabled us to travel around the country and deliver our services. We have ⁓ master classes that we deep dive into a topic. There’s one coming up next week on how do preferences work. So time and time again, we don’t think about… ⁓ Jules (11:57) You’re right. Phillipa (12:00) You know how important it is to think about preferences when you’re running at state or federal level. Those preferences will get you over the line. And in fact, that is a very powerful story about how Cathy McGowan got elected the first time. was through preferences. So because it was such a tight election. So it’s ⁓ very much a secret secret source of Australian politics that women need to know about. So we might deep dive into we have a masterclass called Pit My Fly Out. Jules (12:13) You’re right. that women need to know about. Phillipa (12:28) So, you know, where we actually take a couple of examples and we’ll workshop them in our long masterclass. So they’re deeper dives into specific topics. ⁓ Jules (12:40) And are you targeting ⁓ diverse women as part of this? Because I was just thinking, have you heard of Christina Ryan in Canberra with the ⁓ Disability Leadership Institute? my god, I love that because I was going to go, let’s try and get some disabled people into politics as well. Or more disabled people, I should say. Phillipa (12:45) Yep. Well, she’s one of our Design Council members. ⁓ Yeah, well, ⁓ part of the grant, ⁓ we said that we wanted to… ⁓ So, women are politically underrepresented, increasingly less at federal level, but we’ve got a long way to go in terms of succession planning and at local government level. But we also want to support women in politically underrepresented cohorts. So, we are disability… ⁓ Jules (13:09) Yes, absolutely. Yep. Phillipa (13:27) the rainbow community, First Nations women, multicultural women and young women. So 18 to 28 is the cohort we’re targeting that we define as young. I like to say I still feel young and my hairdresser and I have an agreement that I want to grow all disgraced. So he’s helping me to do that. And we’re really proud to say that 70 % of our attendees or our alumni Jules (13:30) Fantastic. Brilliant, brilliant. I love that! I do too! Phillipa (13:56) from those five communities. ⁓ our regional, sorry, most importantly, regional, remote and rural. So, women can identify in a very intersectional way across all of those. ⁓ And very interestingly, a lot of women who attend our metropolitan events, ⁓ they’re actually identifying as regional or remote. We were fascinated by that. ⁓ Jules (13:59) fantastic. yeah. Phillipa (14:24) That’s exciting to us because it means that they come from those communities and they may go back to those communities. Yeah, so. Jules (14:27) Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. The woman I’m thinking of is in Yaro Wanga, and really wanted to get into politics and didn’t know how. So I will be definitely doing that introduction. Okay, now let’s ⁓ talk a little bit as well about Groom2Go. Just tell us a little bit more about how anyone can be involved and why you’re working with them, and also the consent one that you were talking about, because they both sound fascinating. Phillipa (14:34) Mmm. Yeah. Consent Labs. Yeah, well, Consent Labs is an amazing organisation, as I said, that is in the business of preventing sexual violence through educational consent. So you may be familiar. ⁓ Yeah, the New South Wales government ⁓ in particular ⁓ has legislated that consent must be taught in schools and Jules (15:04) super important. Good. Phillipa (15:18) Also, the federal government has now done that and Victoria. So and increasingly other jurisdictions are doing the same. So you might be familiar with Chanel Contos in 2021, young woman who said, just sent out a post, she was doing some study and sent out a post and said, hey, you know, I went to a private girl school, how many of you had feel like you were believed that you were sexually assaulted? And she was Jules (15:46) ⁓ yes. Phillipa (15:48) overwhelmed, like overwhelmed with responses. And the two co-founders of Consent Labs, Angie Wong and Joyce Yu, started a couple of years ago at the age of 19. Like just wanna, I know I wasn’t thinking about this when I was 19. So 10 years ago. Jules (16:05) Wow! Yeah, love that. And I was scared to push myself forward when I was 19. It took really till I was 50 before I went, don’t care anymore. So 19 is very impressive. Phillipa (16:13) He Yeah, it is very impressive. they started talking about it while they were still at uni. And it’s their story to tell, but they had had some they knew some women who had been sexually assaulted, which is depressingly common. And men, you know, about 5 % of men and more than 13 % of women will report that they’ve been sexually assaulted or sexually harassed. So it’s just a thing and they were quite troubled by their own internal reactions and how to go about, you know, did they blame the victim? And, you know, we can do something about this. you know, I guess it was a perfect storm that Chanel Contos’s movement came. There were some other incidents up here in New South Wales where ⁓ a perpetrator got off on the basis that Jules (17:05) Yes. ⁓ Phillipa (17:09) It went all the way to he was well resourced, went all the way to the Supreme Court and said that he honestly, he honestly thought that that the person had given consent. And so, so the law in New South Wales has now changed to consent must be enthusiastically given and repeatedly given ⁓ for it to be lawful. so consent lamps goes through evidence based Jules (17:26) Right. Gosh, it’s it. Phillipa (17:39) set about, again, educating. And they go through ⁓ all the, right now, mostly high schools, some universities, and they work with the schools. So the carers and the caregivers, they also run some of their education programs with parents at the schools as well. And essentially, they go from year seven to year 12. Every year, they come in and do a different element of it. So what are the basics of consent? Jules (17:59) Yeah, good. Phillipa (18:08) how to drug and alcohol impact your ability to give consent. Not whether you should not take drugs or alcohol, it’s really about the, does it work? I’ve had the privilege of sitting and had been allowed to sit in the back of the room and watch the, again, young people presenting to young people. And I just am blown away by the approach and it’s all evidence-based. the long-term… Jules (18:14) No, just… Yeah? Phillipa (18:34) goal is to reach 500,000 people. They’ve reached over 130,000 now. ⁓ And I just think there’s there’s a generation of thing, you know, you and I were not told about consent. We nobody talked about it. ⁓ We were often ⁓ sort of again. ⁓ What did you do to deserve that? Maybe you dress the wrong way and all of those sorts of things. Navigating our way through. Jules (18:46) Absolutely, we didn’t have that when we were younger. Yes. Phillipa (19:01) parties where there was a lot of alcohol. So yeah, it’s quite amazing to think about how they do that. yeah, so they’re now in Victoria as well. yes. ⁓ Jules (19:13) Fantastic. Have they seen good results like other than the ⁓ connecting, you know, the 130,000? What’s the impact of doing this? they met? Because if they’re, I guess, data driven, there, have we got some results that sort of say what difference it’s making? Phillipa (19:26) We do. Yeah, an organisation called Mandala just released a social impact report. So for every dollar that has been invested into consent labs, it’s returning $3.20. I’ve got the report at $3.23 in return, social return. Jules (19:36) Okay How do they measure that? I guess I was thinking we’d go, right, now we’ve got 130,000 kids that say they know what they’re doing ⁓ and they understand consent better. But wow, where does the dollar value come from? Okay, don’t worry, sorry. ⁓ Phillipa (20:02) They do. do. I don’t know, they’re very smart economists and they have come back. And it’s through the students themselves. The return is about $2.85. And it is through things like even up to four years afterwards, they’re at the study show. Jules (20:13) Yeah. Phillipa (20:24) that the incidence and awareness of what consent is and the reduction of perpetration is quite significant. ⁓ Bystander, yeah, the reduction in bystander or the improvement in bystander behaviour. So that’s something that I’m excited about. So the confidence to say something when you see it. And also the carers and their teachers. ⁓ Jules (20:33) Fantastic. That’s the result I was looking for. Yes. Phillipa (20:50) They don’t feel confident talking about it or they don’t feel comfortable. So it’s a great comfort to have organisations like Consent Labs come in and help them. So there is benefit to the schools as well and the teachers in the schools. And they also report an increase in confidence in actually being able to deal with it when they’re confronted with it as well. know, they, yeah, so, yeah, so that’s that. Jules (20:59) Yeah. that’s great, isn’t that a fantastic initiative? Love it. Phillipa (21:16) And then Dress for Success is a charity that started in America nearly over 40 years ago, just another young woman who received an inheritance and is a small inheritance, but nonetheless significant. And at the time said, I don’t need that money. I’m young enough, I can still in my own way. So she looked around and said, well, maybe I can help women get into the workforce and to do that. ⁓ Jules (21:36) It was a guy! Now I’m really surprised by that. Did you just say he said that? okay. Yep. Phillipa (21:39) No, no, was a woman, a young woman. Yeah, yeah. There are men’s charities who do similar things, but yeah. ⁓ Jules (21:45) No, yeah, no, I know. just, you were talking about Dress for Success, I was like, I have always imagined that would be founded by a woman. So was just me mishearing. Phillipa (21:52) It was founded by a woman. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it’s an affiliate model. So there are Dress for Success around the country. ⁓ We are New South Wales and ACT. So we now have ⁓ four offices. have Sydney at Summer Hill, which is in the inner west. We have ⁓ Penrith now. So Western Sydney, which is a growing, huge growing area. Jules (22:01) Yes. Phillipa (22:18) We have Newcastle and we have the Illawarra region. So Wollongong and surrounds and a of people, guess, poo poo fashion is something trivial, but how we dress and how confident it has a material impact on our confidence. we help women to, we help women, don’t assess whether you can afford it or not. don’t make any of those judgments. We got a lot of referrals from ⁓ Jules (22:22) Fantastic. ⁓ totally. Absolutely for women, yeah. Phillipa (22:44) job agencies that help us and send referrals. We have a prison outreach as well for women who are coming out of prison and don’t have anything to start with. ⁓ And we’ll do a styling session, know, women will pay hundreds of dollars for a stylist to help them to find what suits them best. And when they get the job, then we give them a week’s worth of outfits. So that’s just to help women get on their feet. And we also run ⁓ Jules (22:46) I bet. Great! Everybody needs a second chance. yeah. Phillipa (23:13) through an online portal. do, and we’ve got lots of support from organisations like LinkedIn on how to do your CV and how to interview skills and coaching and things like that. So we offer those as peripheral services, but our core business is to help women to feel confident enough to Jules (23:22) Great. Phillipa (24:39) to not to run. Jules (24:39) So where do the clothes come from? Are they donated from other women? So they’re secondhand clothes or do you have some partners donating fashion brands, donating? ⁓ good. Phillipa (24:43) Yes. Yeah, we do have fashion brands who obviously get to the end of season or they have overruns and things like that and they donate brand new clothes. So Q has been a supporter of ours. ⁓ I saw a post yesterday from Long Song who donated clothes to us, so designer clothes. So a lot of our donations come from women who no longer need them or they move. Jules (24:53) Yeah, and donate it! good. Yeah, wow. Phillipa (25:18) ⁓ We want good quality clothes and we want clothes that could be fit for work. Now, that’s very broad these days. Like, what is fit for the office? But… No, no. ⁓ You know, that’s still smart. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, those are those two things. But, yeah, I’m… You know, economic… Fun fact, but women over 55 are the fastest growing cohort of homeless women… ..homeless people in Australia. ⁓ Jules (25:27) but not things with holes in them and, you know, like smart. The name says it all, it’s dressed for success, not dressed to go to the supermarket. It’s awful, isn’t it? 16,000 women living in cars and on the streets. It’s appalling. And I think anything we can do to help them and to stop this trend is super, super important. Okay, Philippa, so wow, you’re an amazing woman. You’ve obviously got your fingers in lots of pies that are all social enterprises, which I love and which I know women are driving. But I want to hear bit more about you as a person. So. Phillipa (25:51) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jules (26:12) Let’s start, you’ll freak out now, I’m gonna go, let’s start with you in primary school. Where did you live and what, you know, do you have brothers and sisters? What did your parents do? I’m interested just in terms of role modeling and things like that. Phillipa (26:27) So I’m very much a middle class girl. I was born in Sydney. So it’s funny for me that I’ve ended up back in Sydney, but I was born in Sydney. We moved to Melbourne when I was two. And I grew up in, yeah, I grew up in Melbourne. I’m in Easton. I grew up on Forest Hill. We went to Forest Hill Primary School, which is now housing. even then there were only 200 kids at Forest Hill Primary. And so we were in a combined like prep. Jules (26:32) Yeah. ⁓ right, so you have been a Melbourne girl. Yeah? Phillipa (26:54) And then it was year one, two, three and three, four, five and four, five, six. And so, you know, that school was never going to last. was it was sold off for housing many years ago now. I went to La Trovigny. Jules (26:56) ⁓ What did mum and dad do and do you have brothers and sisters? Phillipa (27:11) I do have brothers and sisters, ⁓ one brother and one sister, so I’m the youngest. I’m still the baby of the family at 57. Jules (27:15) right Phillipa (27:22) My parents, my mum is, well they’re both in sales, my dad more in technical sales. So he worked in a number of different organisations and mainly around, he worked for Hills Industries, he worked for Industrial Measuring Equipment. What brought him down to Melbourne was the job at EMAR. ⁓ Jules (27:28) Right? Okay. email as in email the washing machine company, not the emails. I was like, what do you mean? Wow. Okay. So they were really driven. Did you like school? Phillipa (27:51) Yeah, yeah, do you remember? Yeah, no one greets this. yeah, email. I loved school, I loved school. And just something about my mum, she was, she needed to work like we needed two incomes, but it was very unusual when I was growing up. And my mum worked for many organisations in mainly in the direct mail industry. And ⁓ so in my school, she was the only working mum. So yeah, yeah. And so I grew up making my own lunches ⁓ and you know, Jules (28:11) Yes. Okay. Wow! Really? Phillipa (28:27) all the other kids had their, you know, their lovely sandwiches with the corners cut off and the crust cut off. And, you know, I was really proud of my mum. Yeah, it was, and my parents are both role models to me, but my mum in particular, I grew up feeling a bit awkward sometimes about the fact that my mum worked and we had to, my grandparents were very supportive. My mother’s parents lived around the corner and we used to go to their place after school. And I remember my grandmother buying Jules (28:30) No, we made our own too. But talk about a role model. Yeah. Yeah. Phillipa (28:56) comics. Every Wednesday was comic day and we’ve got our own comics and we could read them and so they were a terrific support to both my parents. And yeah so now they’re in their 80s and they still have a business. They still run a business. Yeah. ⁓ Jules (29:01) gorgeous. isn’t that fantastic! And probably still love politics and are delighted by what you’re doing as well. Phillipa (29:16) They do, they do. ⁓ But yeah, they’re very active. And I think, God willing, I’ve got another 30 years in me and it really, you know, it’s very part time for them. But again, it’s technical, it’s technical flow meters and industrial measuring equipment. And dad’s the sole distributor of a British company in Australia. And they love him. He loves that. Yeah. And Jules (29:38) I can’t believe they’re still working. Phillipa (29:42) Partly because financially, you know, they were a generation that didn’t have super and partly because they don’t want to retire. And so I think. Jules (29:44) Yeah. but also as business owners or whatever then yeah, it’s just isn’t a thing for a lot of people. Phillipa (29:51) Yep. Yeah, yeah. So I have an older brother. They’re both in Melbourne and an older sister. And again, my brother is more of an entrepreneur, sales oriented. He’s done many different things. ⁓ My ⁓ sister-in-law works in theatre and as in the organisation that puts on musicals in Melbourne in particular, she works for that organisation. ⁓ Jules (30:06) Okay. great musicals ⁓ Phillipa (30:24) And my sister is retired now and she’s got three kids and my brother’s got one and we’ve got one and we have a cat and my daughter is 23 now. So yeah, so yeah, we’re pretty. Jules (30:32) Right. Okay, so Right, so it’s great when the kids hit their twenties, isn’t it? And you can really kind of go hard for what we want to do a little bit as well. So then from school you went to uni, I think you said you went to La Trobe, and then what happened after uni? What did you study? ⁓ Phillipa (30:42) It’s… Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I studied, I studied science, chemistry and physics and maths. I double majored in chemistry. Yes, I know. Jules (31:00) Gosh, were you one of a handful of women in that that degree stream, I bet. Phillipa (31:05) Yeah, very interesting though. a lot of my cohort were, Greeks and Italians, ⁓ and Turkish people, wonderful people, amazing. ⁓ so, there was only a few of us, ⁓ with English sounding surnames to be honest. So, ⁓ amazing, amazing. ⁓ but yes, I was a small cohort of women. ⁓ Jules (31:13) Yeah. ⁓ right. Phillipa (31:30) I was fascinated by forensic science when I was a kid. I loved the concept of free. Like, why do people do what they do? How do you find, know, what’s, you know, how do you do to decipher whether somebody’s forged their hands, the handwriting or read or every Agatha Christie book I could get my hands on and Nancy Drew and all of those books. I very quickly realized though that I probably wasn’t cut out for it. Jules (31:34) okay. You Okay. Phillipa (31:58) the grimness of it. It’s a very grim, ⁓ my hat goes off to people who work in the police and ⁓ forensics is, yeah. And so I finished my degree and I did qualify for honours and ironically the Victorian Forensic Science Labs moved next door to LaTrobe Union and I could have done my honours in Forensic Science but. Jules (32:00) Right. Yeah. ⁓ Yeah, same. So traumatic. Phillipa (32:25) But I just wanted to work. I wanted to earn some money. was, you know, sick of studying and I wanted to get out there. So I started in the plastics industry, working in technical service in plastics. Yeah. Yeah. Then, you know, the early nineties hit and the recession that we had to have hit interest rates were 18 % for those who can remember and Jules (32:30) Yeah. Okay, so you went into, you used your degree, yep. Yep. Phillipa (32:52) And, know, shockingly, people started to be made redundant, whatever the language was back then. so, yeah. And people, you know, the concept of having a job for 40 years and starting in a company and working there, you know, is very quickly smashed to pieces. So I got married in 1993. My husband and I were still married. And thank you. Jules (32:58) fired i think Congratulations. So was he, did you meet him at this job? Was it a work? No? Okay. Phillipa (33:24) No, we just met through friends and we were, we hung out with friends for two years and then something happened and a spark happened and three months later we got engaged and then we got married and well you could say it was two and a half years really and then it was you know 12 month engagement so ⁓ and I guess something was right because we’ve lasted but yeah between us we got retrenched four times in our first year of marriage and so yeah yeah Jules (33:33) my god, that’s quick, love that. Yes, clearly. So, so… my god, in your first gear! ⁓ Philippa, that’s a bit of a shock to the system, I bet. Phillipa (33:55) Yeah, and I ended up at Telecom, Mobile’s customer services attempt and I went, this is fun. And ⁓ the Telecom became Telstra ⁓ and I didn’t look back like I had a 20 plus nearly 20 years. Yeah, all. Jules (34:10) you worked in Telstra because it’s such a massive organisation. There’s so many roles you can have. Phillipa (34:15) Yeah, if you were if you were ambitious, you were willing to work hard ⁓ and then you didn’t necessarily have to have a degree. ⁓ And that’s what I did. And I spent most of that time. Well, I started out on the phones and took 100 calls a day and billing calls and in my boss customer service. And then I went into. ⁓ Jules (34:28) What sort of roles were you in there, yeah? Yes. I’ve done that. Phillipa (34:41) Mainly around customer service and contact centers. So I grew into more senior roles. I worked with the forecasting and planning, the operations. It’s a fascinating and really, really great grounding to understand how to serve customers through bulk. When I left, Telstra was… Jules (34:52) Okay. Phillipa (35:06) trying to reduce, but 50 million calls a year into its various customer service. So a huge amount of calls supporting customers. A lot of it’s digital these days, but Jules (35:09) Wow. You know, that’s the first time that I feel any sympathy for Telstra over the fact that their service is normally, and I’m gonna be rude, shit, is that I had no idea that they were managing 50 million calls. That does give them a little bit of an excuse, I think. Phillipa (35:28) Yeah. It’s enormous, much more complicated, but my passion and what I discovered through my time in Telstra and I ended up the last five years of my time at Telstra and we were in the Philippines. So I went over with the Sultra CEO was the CEO and then David Thode became the CEO and the board changed and he’s just an amazing human being and the board was amazing. And they said, well, Jules (35:39) Yeah. ⁓ interesting. Phillipa (36:01) You know, it was something that was very controversial. ⁓ so they went over, he came over and said, look, if we’re going to make this work, then, ⁓ and the mantra of the board and David was the customer has to come first. So we were given the real privilege and funded to actually work. Jules (36:09) Is this for call centers? Call centers in the flamenco. I love him. Phillipa (36:25) in an international context but for Australian customers and we were able to build a bespoke model that worked ⁓ culturally with the Filipino people who are just the most amazing people, but deliver great outcomes to Australian customers. And I’m really proud that we did improve our customer experience markedly. And I learned there that, and this is something that I feel very passionate about is I’m really good at systems. I’m really good at like, My metaphor is like an orchestra. Like we’ve all, we all love to go and see a beautiful symphony orchestra. It doesn’t matter what your taste in music is. ⁓ And there’s a real science to making those orchestras work well. But a lot of us have experienced very enthusiastic high school bands and we’ve all been in a very enthusiastic high school band and there’s nothing, the difference between the band and the orchestra is not the people. people turn up. don’t know many people who deliberately turn up to work, do not do well. It’s everything that surrounds them and all the systems and that’s my passion. I love people. Jules (37:28) Yeah. my god, you’re an amazing woman. That’s the bit that’s missing in me, I think. That’s fantastic. Phillipa (37:37) I’m super passionate about helping people achieve their potential. And if you’ve got a reason for coming to work, it goes beyond paycheck. It goes beyond, it really does. Paycheck is a basic right and a basic need, but Jules (37:54) Yeah. Yeah. Phillipa (37:59) If people can decide why they want to come to work every day, then I’m all about creating those systems and the environment to help people be successful and reach their potential. And so for me that then removes, you know, when you’re talking about 50 million calls a year, when you’re talking about 10,000 headcount, when you’re talking about leading 500 people, I’ve had the privilege of being a leader of 500 people. Jules (38:20) Wow. Phillipa (38:21) You you can’t know every single individual person, but you have to be able to personalise it. And so for me, it’s like, what is it that makes Philip a job and get out of bed every day? And how can I create those systems and processes to ensure that the customer gets a great experience through the person? And the person I give a great customer experience if they don’t understand, ⁓ if they don’t feel successful. ⁓ so, Women for Election is no different. Jules (38:42) Yeah. ⁓ Phillipa (38:46) in that sense, you know, we’re attacking it from a systemic level. And so we don’t like to say that politics is broken. We just think we can do better. And we have the privilege in Australia of a wonderful democracy, ⁓ wonderful with so many things that support our democracy. And the last election, if you weren’t convinced, ⁓ and I’m not talking about who won the election, I’m just talking about the way it played itself out versus what we’re seeing in other countries around the world. Jules (38:49) Yeah, I know, I love it. was run. Yeah. Phillipa (39:15) know, Lissy will tell you that Jules (39:16) Let’s not name names, but… Phillipa (39:18) she’s overseas at the moment and there are a lot of people who’ve invited her to come overseas to go, what are you doing differently in Australia? And it’s our democratic processes that underpin our democracy. So yeah, so we just want to do better and we want to see more women run. Jules (39:31) Fantastic. just one more little bit and then because we’re coming close to the end, what happened that made you, because you’re only young, leap out of the corporate world and into doing all this social justice kind of stuff? Phillipa (39:49) Yeah, well, look… I am… When I was in my early 40s, I remember talking to one of my, one of the execs and ⁓ she, a female, and she was saying, ⁓ you know, you seem to be really passionate and, and yeah, that’s me. And she said, you know, what do you do in community? And I said, look, I’ve thought about volunteering. just don’t have a lot of time. And she said, I think you can do better. We can all do better in terms of volunteering and you know, show up roll your sleeves up do a collection But if you thought about boards because you know people like us we have a lot to contribute us. I never thought about that so I’m by early 40s and then I joined women on boards I joined the AACD and then I went to the Philippines and sort of some of that got put on hold but I’ve had this sort of thing about Jules (40:32) Yeah. Phillipa (40:47) What do I want to do when I retire? What do I want? I don’t want to retire. Referencing again, my parents as wonderful role models. Yeah. Obviously I’d like to slow down, but ⁓ my roles have been very demanding. ⁓ You it just sat there for me. And so, but I just kept putting it off because, know, other people are more important than that, you know? Yeah. I let, know, I think it was a combination of getting a little bit older. Jules (40:51) Yeah. What do I want to do instead of retiring? Yeah. Yeah. Well we all do. So what was it? Phillipa (41:17) So, I, I ⁓ went through menopause. It was a horrific experience like many women. ⁓ Thank God for HRT. I’m unashamedly saying that saved my life. ⁓ And, ⁓ you know, that was hard. it, no, I guess. Jules (41:24) Yep. Wow. But was it around that time that you were going, I don’t know that I really want to keep doing the grind, I want to do something different. Phillipa (41:40) Yeah, yeah, your body just changes a little bit and then COVID hit and that was like for all of us, that was very confronting and ⁓ the organisation I was working with at the time did an amazing job with their staff and their people, they really looked after their people but you know, months and months of working 16-hour days or 14-hour days and you know, restoring service levels and looking after people and really proud to say that our engagement scores grew during that period with our staff because they felt so supported. I was probably bit burned out and tired. And then I probably got to the end of 2021 and said, I don’t know if I want to do this anymore. I think it’s time for me to… Jules (42:12) Wow, that’s amazing. I’m sure. Phillipa (42:34) think about what’s next for me. So I sort of ripped the bandaid off in 2022 and resigned. Jules (42:40) Did you, by that stage though, did you know what you were going to do or did you rip the bandaid off and say, right, I’ll have a think once I’ve finished work or were you already going, I’ve got my fingers in some pies already. Phillipa (42:48) No, I- Yeah, no, I didn’t have my fingers in any pies because like a lot of women, I had felt guilty for building our networks and I didn’t feel confident. so, but I knew that in my early 50s, if I didn’t start looking for board roles, then I would get to a point where I would be too old to start. know, boards are very much a slow burn and ⁓ you can try and fast track it. But, you know, the road to Jules (43:10) Right. Phillipa (43:18) full-time board or portfolio careers as they’re called is, is, you know, three to five years. And so, and there’s a thing about, you know, the road, the pathway to boards is through a thousand coffees. So that was my, that was my goal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so I, um, Jules (43:24) Yep. Back to the, it’s who you know, not what you know. Again. Just keeps coming back, doesn’t it? Phillipa (43:40) I set up a consulting business and set out to be a small business owner and got a few great consulting gigs. And that’s how I ended up finding Women for Election at the time. they got some philanthropic funding and I said, yeah, I’m really happy to work part time. That suits my objectives and found a place where I felt so many things came together for me. Jules (43:43) okay. right Phillipa (44:08) I love the work and I’m really happy. so startups, I kind of found myself in all the startups that were growing and giving us some advice ⁓ from, again, from the big corporate, knowing how things work. Jules (44:22) to go from that down to micro startups is fascinating. Phillipa (44:25) well, you know, I do say that you’ve got to be willing to cut up the fruit and do the laminating and also write five year strategies and budgets. And I found myself doing budgets that I hadn’t been in an Excel workbook for 30 years and, you know, writing, I’ve been writing policy documents and yeah. Yeah. Jules (44:42) Well that’s another thing isn’t about running a business. You can be good at one thing but actually in small business you have to be good across the spectrum. Which can be a rude shock. Phillipa (44:52) Yeah, and I think you’ve just got to be willing to do that. think, you know, there’s one thing to think about. Yeah, there’s one thing to think about, you know, being a startup or a co-founder. And there’s another to actually the reality of that can be quite lonely. so 2022 was the year where I sort of sat down and I wrote a few blogs and set up my own business and understood what that meant and, you know, how to do tax and what is an ABN and what do you mean, insurance? What does that mean? Jules (44:56) Yeah, it’s a journey. Phillipa (45:22) and set out to meet people, learn how to network properly, networking with intent as my friend Michelle Redfern says, networking with intent is important and ⁓ loved meeting people. I loved turning up to events where everybody was just like, yeah, we’re all here to run a business. And what I found in the small business landscape, Jules (45:33) Yeah, I love Michelle ⁓ It is. Phillipa (45:50) Everybody understands what you’re going through. so how can I help? Jules (45:53) There’s a lot of support for women in, I actually find it amazing that I’ve interviewed probably 450 women now. And the women all talk about how there is a lot of bullying and often it’s the women who were tripping them up in corporate and the shock they got at the amount of support outside of it. Because I’ve been living in small business land for 30 years. And I know we all lift each other up, we all try and help each other. So it’s… ⁓ Phillipa (45:58) Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jules (46:21) it’s Phillipa (46:21) Yeah. Jules (46:22) it’s a lovely lovely kind of community once you could step out on your own Phillipa (46:26) It was very uplifting, albeit, yeah, so I am loving being the Chief of Staff to an amazing CEO. Lisia ⁓ has an amazing vision and, you know, we have some amazing small but mighty team as Lisia calls it, but we also have some amazing consortia partners. So Australian Local Government Women’s Association. who help us with our confidence series. So they have some quantum impact group. We work with the Global Institute for Women’s Leadership. They’re a research partner through the ANU. Jules (46:58) That’s brilliant. Yeah, brilliant. I’m glad all these organizations are stepping up to be part of it. think that that’s very important. Phillipa (47:10) Yes, and Turnstone Collective are our First Nations, I just want to say, the Cachetan Collective are our First Nations training partner and they do some amazing work. So, yeah, so we’re very proud to be associated with Turnstone. And Dr. Michelle Deschamps, so, so yeah, they’ve written our First Nations companion model or QWIT workshop. So that’s a module and we’re now branching out into doing a multicultural and we’re working on a disabled module with the Disability Leadership Institute right now. So yeah, yeah. Jules (47:14) Yeah. Wow. Yeah, fantastic. I’m so pleased. I’m Jules (47:41) Oops, so we had a bit of a technical issue at the end of it yesterday, so I’ve brought Filippa back just to do the last couple of questions. Thank you so much for doing this, Filippa. So if you’re watching this on video and we look different, that’s why. ⁓ But, Filippa, okay, so what I was just about to ask you when it all cut out was how can people be involved? What is the best way for people to get a hold of you? or to go and connect with Women for Elections or the Consent Lab or Dress for Success as well. So you go. Phillipa Dobbin (48:14) Yeah. All right. Well, you can find me on LinkedIn. I’m a LinkedIn user, not so prevalent on Insta or Facebook or any of the socials. search for me, Philippa, with two L’s. So goalposts in the middle. ⁓ Philippa Doven. Yes, that’s right. Philippa Doven ⁓ on LinkedIn and ⁓ reach out. I’m always happy to connect with lots of like-minded people. So that’s that. Jules (48:23) I’m with you. and one pay. You Yep. Brilliant. Phillipa Dobbin (48:42) ⁓ For Women for Election, we have a website ⁓ where we’ve got events you can donate, you can join our mailing list from there. So womenforelection.org.au or wfe.org.au. ⁓ We do have an Insta page, Women Election Oz, OZ, so that’s all one word. And also we have a YouTube channel that we’re just beginning to upload information. Jules (48:56) Perfect. How brilliant. Phillipa Dobbin (49:07) We have like monthly in conversation events with lots of wonderful women who have either run for public office and we’re beginning to upload that content for everybody to share. So that there’s a couple of ways that we can you can keep in touch with us that way and subscribe. And if you’re a woman or anyone identifying as a woman, all of our events are up there on the events page. So that’s how you can register and join our events and and join the fun. If you are looking for some volunteering opportunities, for Success is the place to go in Sydney. So New South Wales ACT dot dress for success dot org or just search Dress for Success Sydney in whatever your search engine is and you’ll find us there. We’re always looking for volunteers, always looking for donations and you’ll get all the instructions on where to put the clothes and how to donate clothes as well. And consentlabs dot org dot au. Jules (49:53) right? Brilliant. Phillipa Dobbin (50:05) and all of their socials are there as well. And again, have a look there. ⁓ If you want them to go to one of your kids’ by all means get in touch with them that way and also donate that way. So that’s a bunch of websites. Jules (50:18) Fantastic. Wow. It is, thank you so much. ⁓ you know, weirdly after we spoke yesterday, I went to my local council to an event and the mayor was there and last night they did the new elections for mayors. But I’m considering after talking to you whether I should maybe go and apply to be a mayor in a couple of years because I just think, you know, why not? Okay. And my… Phillipa Dobbin (50:38) Ugh. Well, come along to one of our events, Jules, and there’s plenty of time. Yeah, yeah. Jules (50:52) Yeah, I will, because I definitely need the info. Okay, and my last question for you is nothing to do with anything other than you. So is there a quirky fact about you that most people don’t know that you’d be up for sharing? Phillipa Dobbin (51:07) Yes, I thought about this when you sent me the questions in advance. Look, the quirkiest factor I could say is ⁓ I love singing. I’ve been in a few choirs in my time and taken lessons. when I was a little kid, I dreamed of, this is going to show my age, I dreamed of being on Young Talent Time. Jules (51:10) Okay. ⁓ You Not fantastic. Phillipa Dobbin (51:27) We lived not far from the Channel 10 studios and so I I harbored those dreams for a little while and I sang backing vocals on a CD once many years ago now with the choir that I was in at the time. So ⁓ it was a, no, not really. It was sort of a bit of a niche sort of thing and they got a hold of our choir and said, come along and do some backing vocals for us. So that’s my quirky fact. Jules (51:38) my god, did you? What was the band? Or was it anyone we know? my god, I love it. Phillipa Dobbin (51:53) I would not think that that music is around anymore or the CD, or is a CD. and I probably don’t even have a coffee myself, but there you go. That’s my quirky fact. Jules (52:03) Well, I love it. And as I ⁓ have said throughout, you’re amazing, Philippa. I thank you so much for this interview today. I hope we’ve inspired a whole lot of women to go and look up WFE and the other organizations. So thank you. Phillipa Dobbin (52:11) Thank you, Jules. Yeah, I hope so too. Thank you, Jules. Have a great day.

Jules (00:13) Welcome to She’s the Boss Disruptors podcast and today my guest is my very good friend and an absolutely inspirational woman, Amanda Thompson. Amanda, welcome. I know. That’s true, but we’re going to do this all about you today. So. Amanda Thompson (00:25) Hello, it’s so funny seeing you on Zoom or when I can normally touch you in person. Jules (00:38) I’m going to get you to introduce yourself. I was going to say ⁓ endurance, financial and conversations that matter, two of the things that you’re doing, but you introduce yourself and tell everybody what you do. Amanda Thompson (00:50) Hello everyone and thank you Jules. I am Amanda Thompson, a financial advisor, author, international speaker and founder of Endurance Financial which is a boutique financial advisory firm. I mainly help people change their relationship with money ⁓ so they make decisions with confidence not fear and create sustainable habits. But as you know Jules my work blends the traditional financial strategy with more so values, wellbeing ⁓ and behavioural type insight I’ve created or recently created the Money Goals framework which replaces that shame, guilt and structure that ⁓ our industry once believed in. Jules (01:37) likes to put on people. Amanda Thompson (01:39) Yes, and the idea is to get rid of the confusion and make decisions with clarity, purpose, but really values aligned. I work a lot with women, business owners, high performers who want to build their wealth in a way that actually aligns with their feelings and a life that they want, not a life that the website or our friends tell us what we want. ⁓ Jules (02:02) True. Amanda Thompson (02:03) Yeah, and so I suppose and more importantly for me at the moment is my passion and purpose which is the establishment of the community initiative conversations that matter which is growing to host workshops, speaking nationally and just talking about the financial truth telling or you know it’s that common question that we don’t necessarily understand when women are trying to flee relationships and there’s this too scared to Jules (02:16) Yeah. Amanda Thompson (02:33) too scared to leave concept which is is just heartbreaking to me because so many people stay and it must be because leaving is scarier where normally it’s got to do with money and housing. Jules (02:41) Yes. Or almost, yeah, or looks impossible because if you don’t have the financial reins in your relationship and you’ve got somebody that’s gaslighting you and whatever, I mean, trying to overcome that would be so hard. So what you’re doing is incredibly important, I think. So ⁓ next comes the why. You have been so amazing for me because I have to admit numbers are not my favorite thing as you know very well. And so the fact that you work with me and have shown me not to be scared of them I think is so important. So I’d love to know the why for that and then we can talk a bit about the why for conversations that matter. But what is it? Did something happen that made you decide to focus on women business owners particularly? Amanda Thompson (03:37) Look, I think being a woman in a man’s world, and by that world I mean the corporate financial industry at the banks, it took me a while to realise what that dislike or where I felt everything was going wrong. But the perfect example was with client last night, Jules, and he is a really successful business owner and we were just chatting how his son had got a recent ADHD diagnosis. Jules (03:39) You Yeah. Amanda Thompson (04:06) And I said, either you or his mum gonna go down the path of getting money said no He said I look back and there’s been times where I just went school was awful for me And I said to him I wonder if you were or are dyslexic or have dyscalculia which is like dyslexia with numbers and he said ⁓ Absolutely, yet he gets his sheets every day from work and I said I bet you look for patterns You know and he said that’s exactly what I look like and Jules (04:07) Mm. Yeah. You Amanda Thompson (04:36) And I think that’s the reason that I want to disrupt and my why is because too long we’ve been told to do things a certain way and if we didn’t fit that mould well so be it. ⁓ You don’t as you’re learning you don’t need to be an accountant you don’t need to be awesome with spreadsheets to have this understanding and I don’t think there is enough empathy led financial advice out there that listens to the person. It’s my job to listen to the person and try and give them knowledge and with knowledge becomes clarity and confidence around the decisions they’re making. If I just point my finger and tell you to do it, that reason’s not going to be embedded with you. So I’m sick of hearing that people are bad with money. It’s just not true. So we need to fix this belief that money Jules (05:04) Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah. Amanda Thompson (05:31) has to be complex or intimidating. ⁓ And that’s why I want to break that cycle of where women outsource their power, stay silent, ⁓ or just accept less than they deserve in their careers, relationships, futures. Jules (05:48) Why do you think it is that so many women are fearful or ignorant either or both around the numbers when it just doesn’t seem to affect men in the same way? It’s very rare that you’ll hear a guy go, I don’t really like the numbers. Obviously you had that conversation last night, but what do you think it is? Amanda Thompson (06:07) I think it’s more, and I could stir some trouble here, but I think it’s more about the men. It’s more about the men than the women. So you said you wouldn’t hear a man say it. That’s right. They wouldn’t admit to it. So all of a sudden we think men are good at this and it’s the women that aren’t. And so we bring ourselves because we’re happy to talk about, know, gee, this is, know, even when you go back to mothering your child, this isn’t working. A man would never say, I couldn’t do this with my kid. Jules (06:12) That’s sort of like we’re just having a chat. Yeah. No. Amanda Thompson (06:37) I know how to change nappies and I know how to do this. So the way that they present themselves is different, but it can sometimes cover up our fears because we’re too scared to say something. think, but if I come back to the mother part and… Jules (06:39) Safe. Yeah. Amanda Thompson (06:55) You know, it’s not just mother, but a lot of women just by general nature, we’re empathetic, we’re selfless in lots of different areas of life. And so we tend to be givers and the way we approach risk is different to a male. So we go very much with that security and safety hold viewpoint where a man does not. as time and this systemic nature of things go, we convince ourselves that we’re no good at something. Jules (07:07) Yes. Amanda Thompson (07:25) when we have to look at ourselves we’re so scared of what we’re not good at even though it’s a fallacy that then we remain ignorant we keep the know the paper bag over our head our head in the sand and we don’t do anything about it but as I’m sure most people know by now there is a real epidemic not just domestic violence but the number of older women in Australia who are facing homelessness and if those figures yeah and if those figures aren’t enough to Jules (07:49) Yeah. It’s horrific. Amanda Thompson (07:55) scare us into making sure we’re on top of our finances. I’m not sure what is. Jules (08:02) Yeah, very, very true. guess one of the things that I was thinking is I was talking just stupidly. My mum, you know, has a thing about her eyelids, you know, hanging over her eyes, which is just a genetic thing anyway. But I was talking about it with her and my sons and we were talking about how… As women, we look in a mirror at a certain part of our body and fixate on it when everybody’s looking at the whole of you. know, nobody’s looking at your eyelids in particular. I think it’s a little bit the same maybe with finance and business. You know, you don’t look at the whole thing, just go, I’m really bad with numbers. But actually, you can’t be. If you’re running a successful business, you’ve got to have a certain amount of literacy, you know, for the numbers or otherwise you wouldn’t exist. Amanda Thompson (08:46) And you won’t be able to scale or grow or direct money in the place that it should go. It’s funny, ⁓ if we talk about women entrepreneurs, ⁓ again, often we are our own worst enemy. So we go into these businesses and again, it’s an energy, a masculine versus feminine energy type thing. So we go into these business ⁓ with that Jules (08:52) Mmm. Amanda Thompson (09:13) As I said, we talked about the risk, the nature of risk. So we go into businesses and we try and do everything perfectly. And so we put all our time and energy into something and we don’t want to be seen as failures. therefore, again, it’s another reason why I’ll just let the money go. Because if I open my eyes and think I’m not good at that, then I failed in the whole business, which it’s actually actually not true. means that we outsource to the areas that we need to. And by outsourcing. And you do know this, Jewel. Jules (09:17) Yeah. Yeah. Amanda Thompson (09:43) education. know it’s education it’s not just Amanda you do this for me it’s I can talk about money now and I know what’s happening and how good does that feel to have that transition in a mindset. Jules (09:45) Yeah. Yeah, totally. Totally, I think that that’s super important. Now, ⁓ this is all about disruption. So obviously in the finance space, you’re disrupting and I love what you do. I absolutely have always loved you from the moment that I met you, which was in a podcast in the lockdown. But now that I know you a bit better, you also had an experience that has led to you doing these ⁓ conversations that matter. Can you talk a little bit more about starting that up and what you want that to do and what you want to disrupting that space. Amanda Thompson (10:29) I think for me, ⁓ you know, it wasn’t really, I’d love to say it was this light bulb moment, but everything I do seems to be, you know, cemented with lived experience and this endurance mindset that I’ve got, both ⁓ as an advisor advocate, but also as a woman. And I’m a woman who’s rebuilt from trauma, ⁓ which is domestic violence trauma that then Jules (10:43) Yeah. Amanda Thompson (10:59) escalated to heart failure and so I’ve had to start over but the and you lived through this with me Jules so you can attest to it to what I’m saying I basically fell off the edge of the earth for two years because I Jules (11:14) Yeah. Amanda Thompson (11:17) felt so much shame and guilt about what had happened to me and again, knowing that I’m a selfless person, I’m normally the giver to having to rely on my then year 12 daughter or friends. It just sent me into this spiral, but so much so that I thought I was having a breakdown and I was determined to bring myself out of it and I went for a run and I never came home. I landed in hospital and And and behold, what I thought was all my fault and all my emotional and mental disruption in myself was blood clots in my lungs that had been as a physical result of the traumatic violence that I had endured a year earlier. So it took a year for that to all uncover. And I remember the professor from Alfred Women’s, I was lucky enough to be such Jules (11:56) physical. Wow. Amanda Thompson (12:17) strange case in the hospital that the cardiologist on call ended up calling the head of the women’s heart unit at Alfred this professor and she said to me being feeling unwell I said my god exhausted, tired, perimenopause, PTSD and she said we hear this so often with women just blaming themselves for something that is physical and then Jules (12:25) Yeah. Wow. Amanda Thompson (12:43) And the next morning after all that happened, I mean I had a massive cry thinking how dare he a year later still be coming at me to I can’t, I cannot let him keep writing my story. And so I, I, found, finally found purpose. I mean you were one of the people that kept saying to me there’s something in this, you’re the type of person that can, can come back from this, Amanda, and I’d love you to speak about it when you’re ready. And I wasn’t ready until I realised. Jules (12:50) still be affecting you. Yeah. That’s right. Amanda Thompson (13:13) what it was and it’s the hidden scars jewels it’s the things that we don’t see the bruises the scars fade but it’s what’s going on still inside a person you know whether it’s for me the shame of my year 12 daughter having to look after me and essentially look after herself in a year where we know that we want to be there as mothers it’s it’s the the guilt that you’ve got so many friends around you wanting to help and you’ve got no Jules (13:25) Yeah. Amanda Thompson (13:43) what they can do to help you and I suppose the spin on that and spins probably the wrong word is I’m an educated, supported, ⁓ financially stable woman and this happened to me. Jules (13:45) Yeah, yeah. and look how it affected you. Amanda Thompson (14:02) Yes and so and it’s not just domestic violence that I realize it’s trauma of any sort whether it’s the loss of a partner, whether it’s a betrayal that’s hit hard, whether it’s a health condition, it’s these scars that we Jules (14:09) Yes. Amanda Thompson (14:20) we carry with us and the smiles that we put out in pretend to say it’s okay, I’m fine, you know, and it’s why days like are you okay day matter so much, but you know what, I think the questions need to be extended more from are you okay? You know. ⁓ Jules (14:37) Yeah, yeah, because I feel like I mean look it’s definitely better than nothing But it’s kind of not enough to just go are you okay because someone can go you’re fine When you know that they’re not so tell us a little bit about ⁓ What this has ended up being for you? So what is conversations that matter and and what are you doing with it? And where do you want to take it? Sorry if I’m putting you on the spot Amanda Thompson (15:56) Yeah. No, no, so it started as an event in June of this year of me thinking I might get… Jules (16:18) Yeah. Amanda Thompson (16:21) 20 odd people together and let’s brainstorm how we can can fix this and that was born out of being invited to Parliament House because I won an award for community service and Melissa Horne our local MP here said well if you ever want to come to Parliament House you know and I went well if I am going to come I want to make it powerful so I got people in my industry family lawyers accountants psychologists mortgage brokers money coaches Jules (16:27) Right? Yeah! Amanda Thompson (16:51) and we went to Parliament House and sat around and we were visited by Jacinta, Jacinta Allen. Our Premier came in, Natalie Hutchins, the Women’s Minister came in and what they found was it was a room of 15 women actually trying to find ways to help ⁓ fix some of these situations that wasn’t necessarily saying to the government give us all the funding in the world and you have we weren’t pointing our fingers saying you you you it was about how can we and how can we as a group of 15 think of what we do next so I did this conversations that matter that ended up being 75 changemakers in the room we had Jules (17:14) Yeah. You have to fix it. Amazing people. Amanda Thompson (17:33) We had four mayors in the room. had counselors, had CEOs of ⁓ Rotary Safe, the head of the police, inspectors. had paramedics and young financial advisors and fathers of young girls in the room. ⁓ Jules (17:35) Yeah. You’re the head of the police as well, didn’t you? Amanda Thompson (17:52) people representing the LGTB or Q, I get that, always get it wrong, but community and a big shout, yes, know, big shout out to Peter Gay McLaughlin, know, she was there supporting like she always does. ⁓ And it wasn’t meant to be ⁓ an event where we just listened to a panel of speakers. The concept was that everyone in the room had a voice. Jules (17:57) LBGTQI. Yep. Yes. Amanda Thompson (18:17) ⁓ to the mayor of Moonee Valley, Ava Adams saying that they had a domestic violence policy. The first council to have these policies. To Rotary Safe, to ⁓ Donna from Left Right Hook, which is a child sex abuse survivors network. And said Marion Mays of Money Strong in terms of a safety card. So we’ve had these amazing people. I’m taking it to Jules (18:25) Wow. Amanda Thompson (18:47) Sydney, want to take it to Sydney and I’ve got another little Christmas event or Christmas gathering event which you’re coming to at the end of the year but it’s small, it’s small because I can’t deal at the end of the year with a massive thing but it’s about where are we as a community, as a collective going to take conversations that matter next year. Jules (18:57) Right. No. And where do you, in your heart and in your gut, want to take it? That’s what I’m interested in. You’re driving this bus, so where’s it gonna go? Amanda Thompson (19:14) Yeah. I want, you know, I am known to say we raise our voices now so that the generations that follow don’t need to shout to be heard. So I want to start breaking down the systematic issues that create a whole lot of things. But I want to be an advocate. I want these conversations to go like money, go into our kitchen tables, go into our workplaces, have organizations let me come in and talk and say about what I’ve been through instead of saying, well, no, Jules (19:21) Yes. Amanda Thompson (19:45) a bit of a touchy subject domestic violence we probably shouldn’t bring that into our workplace well why not because there’s probably five ten fifteen people that have suffered in some way or form some form of violence and what happens if just one or two of those people hear my story and find the strength to make a change and what happens if that is one or two lives we’ve actually saved from all of this bad news we see look at me getting all passionate so Jules (19:57) Yes. Yeah, yeah. Amanda Thompson (20:15) So, you know, and it’s my, it is my passion, Jules. You know that it’s, it’s my purpose. It is not a money making. ⁓ thing for me. ⁓ That’s my business. This is what I want to do and disrupt and call out any organisation that’s listening to say have Amanda along and let us speak to you so openly. As I said you asked me before this started is there anything out of bounds and you know what I’m going to stick to it no matter how hard some conversations are. Jules (20:36) Yeah. which I know it is because having to read, having to even talk about it, there’s a wonderful woman that I must, you may know her, Lisa McAdams, do you know Lisa? Amanda Thompson (20:56) I think you connected us, but we’re here. Jules (20:57) Yes, she’s doing a lot of what you’re wanting to do as well, going in, she’s had a terrible abuse of past and she goes in and talks with corporates but she hit a wall and said, I can’t keep repeating what happened to me. So I know that that’s an issue for a lot of women as well to push yourself out there. So you’ve got to be careful. If you’re going to go out there and do that, realize that reliving the trauma all the time is very difficult for you. And so that makes it, I guess, extra. special what you’re doing. ⁓ Amanda Thompson (21:28) It is. just, you know, I know what it’s like to feel powerless and I want to entice, encourage, support other people to take back their power and not be silent anymore ⁓ because, you know, we are the change. We are the change jewels and it’s time we stood up and actually acted on it. Jules (21:54) So how do you, how are you going to bring the financial literacy and courageous ⁓ conversations that matter together? Because I feel like, you know, all of, and I guess I’m, this is just a conversation, but I mean myself, I’m running two businesses as well. And it’s hard because you get torn backwards and forwards. So can you bring them together? Have you thought of a way that you’re going to be able to bring it all together? Amanda Thompson (22:18) I’m very conscious of keeping my business viable while concentrating on a passion. But I think that, as I said, to start with, a lot of the reasons women don’t leave is due to money or shelter or security. And so again, I feel that by bringing… Jules (22:23) Right, yes, important. Yep. Yes. Amanda Thompson (22:42) things like the workshops I run or workshops other you know money coaches and things running and putting it in well-being ⁓ parts of business is the way forward in connecting those two you know it is going into those big corporates and talking about money goals but also bringing that to a space of well hang on I’m just like you probably here’s a little caption of my story and again I’m all over money and thank god I had a Jules (22:53) I like that. Yeah, yeah. Amanda Thompson (23:12) backup plan and things like that because I said I fell off the face of the earth which means I wasn’t working I wasn’t earning a lot of income but I had practiced what I’d preached so I think there are so many lessons that people could hear and learn and give to their employees and you know money stress is massive for productivity in a workplace any type of stress but money stress is huge yeah yeah yeah Jules (23:34) Money stress is massive for everything. It touches everything. So you want to go in and start helping people in that space as well. Yeah. Amanda Thompson (23:46) Absolutely and it is just me so I need to figure out or create this one-to-many approach and by one-to-many I don’t mean like you know this massive overload of courses online or things like that it’s just how can I get more people in front of me in one hit so that I can help that that amount of people. Jules (24:03) Yes. Yes, yeah. well, there’s a way I can help you build that community. OK, so look, normally I would get you to take me back to when you were a little girl. We’ve actually done that interview in the past. So I’m more interested in talking a little bit more about this and how if somebody is listening and they want to be involved, there might be a way that ⁓ they can do that. So you’re taking it up to Sydney and Brisbane, but that’s just an in-person event, isn’t it? Amanda Thompson (24:08) Yeah. Yes. It is, it is just to start with. ⁓ Okay, if anyone wants to collaborate or has got any ideas, I am open. Yep. Jules (24:39) I’m going to help you build up a Facebook community for it, think. I think that’s what you need next. Amanda Thompson (24:44) I’m open to it. ⁓ You know, if you want to have some insight into how I approach this, every Wednesday I’ve committed to writing on LinkedIn, you know, every Wednesday. Yep. And it’s ⁓ not a business push. I know that you’ll slap me on the wrist, Jules, but it’s… ⁓ Jules (24:55) ⁓ good woman. No, no, no, I’ve been seeing them. They’re great. Amanda Thompson (25:04) Yeah and every Jules (25:04) They’re really good. Amanda Thompson (25:05) Wednesday and they’re raw, they’re not pre-scripted so for example I mean ⁓ it’s Tuesday when we are recording this and I am off to court tomorrow to try and get my intervention order extended so no doubt tomorrow’s will be something about feelings or that but they’re very raw, they’re very real, they’re very up and down, just like my life in that particular instance so if you want a bit of insight into I suppose the person I am Jules (25:21) about. Amanda Thompson (25:34) follow me on LinkedIn which is easy to find me with the blonde hair and the financial planner or just go to your LinkedIn and I’m sure they’ll find me through your connection. ⁓ Jules (25:39) Right? True and ⁓ then you’ve got, do you still have financially fit women in amongst endurance financial? Talk a little bit about what you’re doing there. Amanda Thompson (25:52) I do, that’s my workshop. So, Financially Fit Women was my first book. Notice how I said first book, Jules, hint, hint. There’s another one going to be written over Christmas, I have no doubt. So, Financially Fit Women is about that accessibility of financial advice or financial education for women. Jules (26:00) Yeah, very impressive. I love that line you use about women becoming their own CFO. Like really understand, yeah. Amanda Thompson (26:19) Yep, confident, focused and top of your money. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, so that’s my workshops. I will be relaunching some of those courses next year. Again, as you know, it’s been a slow transition back into life for me this year. But 2026, bring it on. Come at me. I’m ready. Jules (26:35) Yeah, yeah. I’d say watch out world. Amanda Thompson (26:42) And it will be World. I’m planning to get a couple of speaking opportunities overseas. So watch out World. Jules (26:49) Yeah, great, great. And is this really where you want to take your speaking from now on? it going to be around the money or is it going to be more around helping women who want to escape and flee? Amanda Thompson (27:02) I think it… believe it or not it is going to be a little bit more neutral in that… What I’ve realised Jules is that endurance is at the core of everything I do. And so in essence, it’s about goal setting, recovering from trauma and how I utilise that mindset through the ebbs and flows of life to recover. know, not every you don’t want to hear you do not trust me and you you know it. You do not want to hear about Jules (27:16) of everything you do. Yeah Amanda Thompson (27:40) my story. It’s awful. You don’t want anyone to have to really live that except you know to understand that it knocked me about. So I’m not going to be going around talking about what happened to me in the actual physical ⁓ Jules (27:46) No. Amanda Thompson (27:57) event but I am going to talk about what happens when your heart stops because of it and how do you regain love ⁓ and how I utilise that endurance mentality and also how from a sports person’s point of view I’m realising I was a sports person I mean I’ve represented Australia four times so I can yeah yeah Jules (28:03) Yeah, nice. Yeah, yeah, well I was going to go, I suddenly thought, we can’t end this without talking about you being an iron man, which kind of blows my head any way that you can’t be an iron woman. I remember you telling me that and I was like, what? Yeah, yeah. But you did that through a cancer, a cancer scare. That was when you started. I’ve been my god woman. Amanda Thompson (28:26) Yeah. Yeah. It’s a brand. It’s a brand. Yeah, we choose to enter that brand. I did. I did. Yeah. You know, and so this is what this, so this is, you know, it really will be a motivational type talk, but a real one, you know, not, not, it is about, I’m all for solutions, not sitting in the, not sitting in the dulls. Yeah. So, so I mean, I talk about those things and I’ve actually off to do a keynote for white ribbon day, ⁓ next week, next week. Yeah. But it is, it’s, it’s coming from the lens of an athlete and. Jules (28:45) Yeah, yeah. I think that’s why I love you. ⁓ fantastic, that’s a good fit. That’s a good fit. Amanda Thompson (29:08) happens when something so important to you like triathlon is taken away from you not by choice you know and and how do you recover and how do you find purpose and I mean this podcast has shown what I’ve replaced it with at the moment you know I’ve got to have a passion and I’m up for a challenge all the time I think I’m not I’m not functioning unless I’ve got a challenge in front of me so Jules (29:16) Yeah. No, but you know what, there’s something special about you Amanda because I watch you and I’m absolutely sure that you will move the dial. Like, I see people, there’s a lot of women, let’s be honest, and I’ve interviewed 450 of them, I’d say a good 20 or 30 have probably got a similar… theme or a similar purpose behind them. But I watch you and I’m like, just even your first conversations that matter and the quality, I hate saying that because people say that about She’s the Boss and I’m like, what are we, cattle? But the quality of the women and the connections that you brought together, I think, and I think that’s really important because they need to talk to each other. It’s not even necessarily, it’s like, we need to bring these people together so they’re talking to each other and the solution will come. Amanda Thompson (30:01) Hehe. Well do you know, the inspector that came and spoke ended up going and speaking for a family law firm that was there. ⁓ Safe Steps, which is the charity I support, the mayor of the ⁓ region where one of their sanctuaries was there and she had never been through sanctuary and now, you know, so I’ve connected, it’s amazing the amount of people. So you know, it’s actually networking with purpose, isn’t it? As opposed to, it’s pretty cool. Jules (30:35) Wow. Yeah. It is. And it actually makes networking much more pleasant. Let me say for anyone out there, if you’ve got a purpose and you’re going after those people that can help change the thing, then it’s great kind of networking. It’s thoroughly enjoyable. Okay, so if someone wants to help, what is the best way of them doing or getting involved other than LinkedIn? Is there a website they can sign up to? That’s okay. Amanda Thompson (31:03) Yep, yep, so it’s only my own website at the moment which is endurancefinancial.com.au or email me amanda at endurancefinancial.com.au ⁓ I promise to get back to anyone that wants to talk about this. Jules (31:14) Okay. Brilliant, brilliant. Okay, now I’m just going to lighten the whole tone. It’s a silly question for the end, but I love it. A journalist told me, and I think you’ve answered it before, but I’m sure you’ll have something different this time, is there a quirky fact about you that most people don’t know that you’d be up for sharing? Having said that, I know you’re pretty much an open book, but, you know, I said to the last person, you burp the alphabet? It really doesn’t matter what it is. It’s just like… Amanda Thompson (31:39) I am, ⁓ you know it. Do you know, and this is a little bit rude, but we’re going to go with it because I could go down my triathlon training and how, you know, being absolutely physically exhausted is where I do my best thinking. But I can shot a drink with my hands behind my back, you know, and I remember doing it one day. Jules (31:54) Yeah, go for it. my god, is that the putting your whole mouth over it and throwing it back? Amanda Thompson (32:10) Yep, yep. And I remember doing this one day because people were saying, what’s your party trick? And I don’t really have one. And I am known as a prude and pretty naive. Right. And I did this party trick and yeah, absolutely. And I did this party trick and there was an anethetist standing next to me who I know quite well. And he looked over at me and you know, I’d taken this big swallow of this drink with no hands. And he said, and tell me why you’re single again. Jules (32:19) Who likes a drink though? Yeah. Ha ha ha! Amanda Thompson (32:39) and it took a while to register what he he meant and I went my gosh there there’s my rude it’s yeah not that I have put that into practice the other way but I I find that quirky Jules (32:43) my god, now you’re now… I didn’t clock that at first either. No, but if you ever have a dating, if you ever have a dating profile, you’ll have to say, can down a shot with my hands behind my back. You’ll have them all knocking on your door. Thank you. Amanda Thompson (32:59) I had taught my daughter that when she was 18. So I showed her that trick as well. said, don’t you and your friends try and beat mum at sculling until you can do this. Jules (33:10) I like it that you’re teaching her the right values. ⁓ I’m only teasing. Amanda, thank you so much. I love what you’re doing. I’m very inspired by it. I will be doing everything I can to support you and help you. And I really wish you hadn’t gone through the experiences you’ve gone through, but I’m so friggin’ glad that you are kind of taking it and running with it and helping a whole lot of other women not go through the same thing, or at least know they’ve got support. So, thank you. Amanda Thompson (33:36) It takes one to know one, Jules, and you don’t get celebrated enough either because I know that the time, energy and heart you put into what you do. So it does take one to know one. And so I’m glad we run in the same circle. Jules (33:51) So am I. There’s something about having a passion, I think, that makes it not really like work. But thank you. Amanda Thompson (33:57) Yeah, you’re welcome.

Jules (00:13) Hi and welcome to She’s the Boss, it’s not She’s the Boss chats, it’s She’s the Boss disruptors this little season. And I have just done a little post because I am so excited that I am interviewing the amazing Mandy McAllister, who is over in Chicago and is doing something that I think everybody who’s listening is gonna absolutely love. So I’ve kind of thrown you under the bus a bit there Mandy, but. ⁓ We’ll start with how about you introduce yourself and tell people what you’re doing now in your business. Mandy McAllister (00:46) sure. My name is Mandy McAllister. am a business and multifamily apartment investor, a podcaster and co-founder of Go Abundance Women, which in my opinion is disrupting women’s leadership. It’s helping women go further faster and scale without sacrifice. Jules (01:05) my god, I love it, obviously. let’s talk a little bit then about GoBundance Women. Why did you start it? Did you sort of have a light bulb moment? I’m always interested in that moment where you go, for god’s sake, right, I’m gonna go and set up something myself. ⁓ So I’m very interested in how it all came about and what exactly GoBundance Women does. Mandy McAllister (01:28) Sure, so GoBundance was actually a men’s only organization for many, years. That because I play in a group that is so heavily male dominated, I knew a lot of friends in apartment building and business buying that were… Jules (01:34) ⁓ really? Mandy McAllister (01:44) getting into their lives and growing into their lives in bigger ways than I had ever seen them do before. So I badly wanted to join the, because you’re part of this group, that’s what’s taking you further faster. And then in 2017, when I looked into joining the women’s division didn’t yet exist. in 2019, 2020, when the women’s division came about, I joined as a member. And then through that time, through being next to other women doing big stuff, Jules (01:57) Right. Mandy McAllister (02:12) I found the bravery to leave my W-2. I knew I had the money, but I had those golden handcuffs that, man, they fit me real good, Jules. You know what I’m saying? So I found the bravery because I was next to other women who had done big things. And then right after I bought my way out of my W-2, W-2 means full-time job in America, ⁓ I was able to, ⁓ I had space and I was able to then take on ownership. Jules (02:12) Yeah. Hahaha OK, right. Mandy McAllister (02:40) of the women’s division with a couple of partners, and we’ve been really running at impacting women’s lives in big ways ever since. Jules (02:44) Right. And so can you tell me a little bit more though about what Go Abundance actually does? Mandy McAllister (02:50) So. Sure, we are the tribe of healthy, wealthy, generous women who choose to lead epic lives. I’ve never said that before, I’m sure you can tell. But the thing that we do is we create the room for big thinkers. We create the culture where you get a high five for achieving something big, rather than getting a, ⁓ must be nice, which happens on the cul-de-sac a lot. Jules (02:57) You Yeah, right. Mandy McAllister (03:18) You know, we provide the opportunity for women to come together and mastermind to solve our own problems in a really big way. So we do stuff in person, we do a ton of stuff online, and we just kind of provide the room to lift each other up. Jules (03:36) And what kind of women ⁓ can apply? Because I think you’ve got sort of a clear picture of the kind of women that you want in the group. Mandy McAllister (03:37) We’re good. The ones that we can serve best are an accredited investor. So what that means in the United States is you have a million dollar net worth or earn $200,000 a year by yourself or $300,000 a year with a spouse because the types of problems that exist if you’re having trouble putting food on the table are different than trying to go from a million to 10 million. we are the perfect woman is the one who is hungry for more, know, more in her business. Jules (03:56) Right. are different. Mandy McAllister (04:14) more in her connection with her loved ones, more in her charitable giving, whatever those things are, we want to help put people in the right room and provide the right resources and goal setting to make that happen. Jules (04:28) And is it specifically around real estate? Mandy McAllister (04:31) You know, we’re a heavy real estate vibe because if the tribe of millionaires, they say, Andrew Carnegie said that 90 % of all millionaires are so because of real estate. But another key reason is the men’s division grew really quickly because ⁓ the hosts of a pretty key real estate podcast joined as members to go abundance. And that kind of spread the word like wildfire. Jules (04:36) because it came out of real estate. Right. Right, right. I love this. It’s just so clever. okay, now I’m interested. We’ll talk a little bit more about GoBundance after we talk about your journey there. But I want to take you back, if that’s all right, to when you were a little girl, ⁓ what kind of a family did you grow up in? Did you have brothers and sisters? What did your parents do? Did you like school? I want to get a picture of Mandy as maybe an eight-year-old, something like that. Mandy McAllister (05:28) love it. my kiddo youngest is nine. So it’s neat to get to visualize that. So I grew up on a farm in a town of 800 people. And my class of grad, my graduating class was 26 kids, the same 26 kids I went to kindergarten with. So very small, everybody knew all your business, ⁓ which is really good in many ways. And also really like, gosh, did I crave anonymity at some point. Jules (05:29) You Wow. You Mandy McAllister (05:54) but we’re a farm family, know? So everybody worked the farm. I, you know, walked beans and fed cows and baled hay and did all of the things that a farm kid would do. So my dad was self-employed and my mom started a gift manufacturing company when I was a kid that kind of ended up being my first sales gig. Yeah, she made reproduction carousel horses and the bulk of her sales came at trade shows. So I was her sales force. Jules (06:05) All right. my goodness. right Mandy McAllister (06:21) She would fly me around with her and we would, you know, hang out in hotels and then go sell on the trade floor. Jules (06:27) That just sounds so niche, I just need to know more about carousel horses. I mean, are they life-size? Are they real carousel horses? Mandy McAllister (06:33) Bye. Well, there, ⁓ do you know the things that the kid would ride like a horse, a bouncy horse? Yeah, that same manufacturer of the plastic horses, that’s who she started buying from. So, you know, it doesn’t exist anymore, but it was, you know, it was very, very niche. And it was a really cool opportunity for me. Jules (06:42) Yeah, at that thing… Yeah. Right. a thing. Mandy McAllister (06:58) to as this little farm girl who, no, you’re from New York City, you must know way more than me, have an opportunity to grow a bond with a buyer on the floor of the New York Javits trade show. And it was really an opportunity that opened up my brain that, well, why not me? If anything needs to have a person doing it, then why couldn’t I potentially be that person? Jules (07:02) You Yes. Yeah! Amazing. Okay, so ⁓ do you have brothers and sisters? Mandy McAllister (07:28) yes, I have one younger brother. still call him my little brother, but he’s 16 months younger than me and he’s the medical director of hospitals in Indianapolis. So. Jules (07:33) You I still call my, I’ve got three brothers and I still call them all my baby brothers even though they’re in their late 50s now. Okay, so you grew up on the farm, what happens with high school? Was there a local high school as well that you went to or did you have to travel or what happened there? Well, the dark night there, you know. Right. Mandy McAllister (07:54) Well, the high school was 10 miles away, you know, so I and I was the youngest one in my class. So I got my driver’s license at 16, which meant the middle of my junior year. So when it came to like getting getting into trouble with friends, like nobody is like I’m not riding my bike 10 miles. So it’s been a really funny like parenting thing now because I don’t even know how a kid would think about sneaking out. because it was never an option for me. So ⁓ very, very small towns. We went other cities to play sports. There was only one sport for girls in my town and it was volleyball. Jules (08:20) Yeah. Right. Bad luck if you don’t like volleyball then. Okay, so did you go right the way through to year 12 or whatever the final year is for you and then was it a natural decision? So what did you decide to do then? Did you go to uni or did you go straight out into the workforce? Mandy McAllister (08:34) Exactly. Yeah. So, ⁓ well, in my family, like the smart kid was going to go be a doctor or go be a lawyer. And I was a straight A’s, always did things perfect, always waited my, you know, always did things. And I think I got three A minuses in all of high school. Jules (08:54) Yeah. Mandy McAllister (09:08) And I knew I didn’t really belong in my little town. I love them to death, but I never fully felt like I fit in in that small town where I was craving anonymity. So luckily I was good at volleyball. So I ended up getting some offers to play in college and took a scholarship to a little school in Georgia, which is about 12 hours away from where I grew up. Jules (09:08) Right. Ha ha ha! Right. Mandy McAllister (09:30) So I ended up going to school, played on the volleyball team at Mercer University in Macon, Georgia. And then literally the day after commencement there, the day after I was done, I moved to the city of Chicago. Jules (09:42) and haven’t looked back because that’s where you are still, isn’t it? Amazing! Okay, and so what did you study at uni and ⁓ what did you do in Chicago when you finished? Mandy McAllister (09:46) Yes. Well, the thing that I was supposed to do was go to medical school, right? So I was a chemistry major for two plus years. And I actually had a conversation. I realized like, my gosh, so I’m 18, 19 years old at the time. If I’m committing my entire life to this, I should talk to somebody who does the thing. Like how lucky that I had this kid thought. So I ended up talking to a cardiologist who I guess he was having a bad day. Jules (09:57) Right Alright. Mandy McAllister (10:20) because he’s like, you’re gonna be a slave to this pager. You better love medicine if you’re gonna do this because this beeper, this is gonna be your, you you’re gonna be tied to it all the time. So I ended up switching into the business school. I did a lot of Spanish and a lot of other like almost minors in there too. think I changed my major 72 times, but I ended up with a business degree with a specialization in marketing. ⁓ And then when I moved to ⁓ Chicago, Jules (10:29) It’s- yeah. Mandy McAllister (10:48) It was 2002, which meant that there was, was a recession. So I wasn’t able to find a job that I wanted to do. And nobody knew Mercer and I had no contacts because they were all in Georgia. So I asked somebody, well, the summer’s home through school, through college, I ⁓ waited tables. Jules (11:00) God. Right. Mandy McAllister (11:08) So I asked around like, does a girl go if she wants to make money waiting tables in Chicago and Rush Street. I don’t know if you know of Rush Street, but it’s the very ritzy. There’s actually, it makes a triangle the way the streets are. They call it the Viagra triangle because that’s where the rich old dudes hang out. And the little farm girl stumbles in and becomes a bottle service girl. And one of my regulars actually ⁓ was working on the floor of the board of trade. Jules (11:26) Okay. Mandy McAllister (11:37) And he, was, started a master’s in economics because I didn’t want to just be the waitress, you know? And while I was doing that master’s in economics, I worked on the floor of the board of trade also, which was a really cool learning experience as well. Jules (11:43) Yeah. Yeah, what’s the Board of Trade? Tell me about that a little bit. Mandy McAllister (11:54) It’s where all the pricing happens. It’s the open outcry that you might see on CNBC of guys in the same jackets and all the yelling in the hands and that thing. Exactly. Yeah, but the Chicago Board of Trade is where they do grains. And I speak farm ground, so they thought it was extra special to have the farm kid who had seen soybeans, because many of the traders had never even seen a soybean. So that was really great. Jules (12:04) the stock exchange kind of thing. Right. Right. Yeah. Mandy McAllister (12:23) again, a very male dominated area. And I started to, I saw the pits going away. We had these like little computers that people would, the clerks would tap, but it seems so clear that like, I’m pretty good at math, but the computer’s faster, you know? So it seemed very clear that that was gonna go away. And luckily I saw that writing on the wall. I went to make the trade or the change to what they called trading upstairs, trading on a computer. And it was me and 180 men. Jules (12:34) Yeah. Yeah. Right? Mandy McAllister (12:52) in one room at this prop firm. Jules (12:53) if that’s very i’ve got this picture of wolf of wall street you know it all the guys are cheering each other on and little old you in the corner pretty much right Mandy McAllister (13:00) Yeah, sweet little Mandy. Just yeah, bless my heart. So I realized pretty quickly that that culture just wasn’t me. And you know, it was a dark room and people would click their mouse for nine hours a day, 10 hours a day to get an edge. And that just didn’t seem that I lasted eight months, maybe, you know, but then I realized, OK, business plus medical, maybe I don’t need to be a doctor. Jules (13:16) my god. Okay. Mandy McAllister (13:26) but I can be in medicine because I speak science, you know. So I then went at like 24, 25 years old into medical sales and spent the bulk of my career in medical sales organizations. Jules (13:29) Yeah, nice. Can I just have to ask though about getting that first job? Because clearly if you were in medical, if you were working at the stock exchange going and fronting up to a company to say, hi, I’d like to start selling medical equipment would have been a bit of a long bow, I imagine just for in terms of your qualifications. So how did it come about? How did you persuade them to let you in? Mandy McAllister (14:05) I remember it like it was yesterday. Friends were telling me, that’s not possible. You’re not going to get a job. Everybody wants that job, Mandy. Well, who do you think you are? Whenever anybody tells me, oh, you can’t do that, that turns something on in my brain like one of bet. I’m going to make this happen. Yeah, just hold my beer. I remember thinking that I have all of the sales experience. Jules (14:15) Yeah. Yeah, let me show you. Mandy McAllister (14:31) Like I had ton of sales experience and managed millions of dollars worth of invoices and sales processes. So I knew those things. And I knew that I had this strong medical background coming as a chemistry major for two and a half-ish years. And I knew that I just needed to get one person to say yes. Because it didn’t matter what first job I had. I could grow a career, but I needed that first yes. Jules (14:50) Yeah? God, I love the way your brain thinks. You know, doesn’t… because you’re right! Once you’re in, then you’re in and you can keep… Mandy McAllister (15:03) It’s it’s backing into stuff. Exactly. I think so much, and maybe this is a takeaway for people listening, whenever there seems like some really big thing you want to do, you can always kind of back up and figure out one little linchpin. What is the, if I had that, what would change the ballgame, right? If I could just get that one job, that changes the ballgame, and I’m going to be able to build a career in medical device sales. So ⁓ AstraZeneca is a big mammoth. Jules (15:19) One little step. Yeah. Mandy McAllister (15:32) pharma company. ⁓ They are one that had offered, I got them to offer me a job. I met a manager who was gonna say yes and bet on me, even though I hadn’t had a ton of experience. And at that exact same time, there was a smaller company that’s, I don’t even know if they’re still around anymore, but I would have had a much larger territory. I would have worn a lot more hats. It was a generic. Jules (15:33) Yes? Okay. Mandy McAllister (15:57) albuterol company, a breathing medicine, that I would get to wear a lot more hats. So that felt way more interesting. Because if what I want to do is go further faster, I can either be a cog in a really big wheel, the AstraZeneca’s, or I can go to this super scrappy entrepreneurial type place and learn all of the things. So luckily, I chose ⁓ the door B and went to the entrepreneurial place. Jules (16:00) Yeah. or becoming. The smaller one. Wow, so how long did you stay there? Because you ended up, I think, for quite a long time working in that industry. Mandy McAllister (16:30) So I was at that company for about two years and I just, know, good, bad and different. There’s some ick that happens adjacent to medicine and I recognized it in that company. So I pretty quickly went to move to a larger company that would give me a little more ⁓ authenticity and being able to play by rules that felt like fully authentic, you know. Jules (16:36) led a lot Yeah, Mandy McAllister (16:55) So I Jules (16:55) yeah. Mandy McAllister (16:57) ended up finding another job where I stayed selling the dye that people might get a shot of when they get an x-ray or a CAT scan or an MRI. I stayed there for about five years. And that kind of just became the same thing over and over, because the contracts are two, three, five years long. And it all depended on the Jules (17:04) Yeah. Okay. Mandy McAllister (17:19) Each hospital belongs to a group purchasing organization. And if that group purchasing organization went a different way, you lost all your accounts. And it didn’t matter how good you were. The decision was made way before me. That felt a little frustrating. So I went to a really interesting company that collects your stem cells. This was 2012-ish. ⁓ Jules (17:28) Right. Okay, yeah. Mandy McAllister (17:48) that you get hooked up to a blood collection device, it collects your stem cells. And what it can do is for people with blood cancers, they would then put myoablate, they would give you chemotherapy to wipe out all your cells and then give you back your reprogrammed good cells. This is how they’re curing a lot of leukemias. That felt so freaking interesting, right? But it was 11 stakes. Jules (18:08) okay. Yeah, yeah. Mandy McAllister (18:13) I had 11 states, I lived out of my suitcase, I was getting married for the first time in there and I just, I couldn’t do that life. So then I found another job that was a wearable defibrillator. And I realized kind of my claim to fame there was that doctors weren’t prescribing this because it was difficult to prescribe. That the form had to be perfect or it got kicked back and they had to fill out the form again. Jules (18:17) Right. Right. Mandy McAllister (18:41) And that then meant somebody didn’t discharge the hospital, which then messed up their rates of discharge. And then the patient’s upset because they had to spend another day in the hospital because the form was wrong. But I had this realization that, we’ve got, again, computers. Computers were better at math than me, but computers can do something perfectly every single time. So these electronic medical records… ⁓ Jules (18:54) Right. You ⁓ Mandy McAllister (19:06) systems, I was able to figure out how to code our form to live inside these EMRs so that when doctor wants to prescribe it, he just click, click, click, and it prints out perfectly. And in some cases, I got it to auto fax to my company. So my quota was a million dollars. I sold like four million dollars that year. Jules (19:14) wow, Mandy. wow, okay, so by that stage you must be loving it. Mandy McAllister (20:39) It was great and it was a really good living. you know, honestly, putting these EMR things into place happened just as I was having my son. So there’s not like a timeline that you know is going to expire like the baby coming, you know? So it was great. We got a lot of stuff done. I was able to help dozens and dozens of hospitals, even on top of the ones that I got to represent in making this process easier. And I have hugged like 12 people who are alive. Jules (20:50) Uh-huh Mandy McAllister (21:08) because of this thing that I touched. There is nothing cooler. I get goosebumps saying it every single time. The opportunity to find something to stand behind, that you get to hug a human alive because of what you touched, that was amazing. That being said, the ick of medical device kind of came in there too. And a boss, the year after that really good year, the number reset. Anybody in sales knows this. You knock it out of the park. Jules (21:09) ⁓ wow. Wow. No. that you didn’t get on with. my god, I remember it too. Ridiculous. They make it enormous. Mandy McAllister (21:38) ⁓ Yeah, so Right. Well, so the quote of the year first year or whatever year it was that I figured this out was like a million and I sold four million So then the next year they want me to sell five million There’s not five million dollars worth of business in that territory, know So I wasn’t hitting my number and I knew I wasn’t hitting my number and I was doing my best But my boss told me that you got to go It’s just the math of it. It’s just it’s a support. It doesn’t Jules (21:54) Yeah. Okay. It’s like they set you up for failure. Yeah, yeah, doesn’t make sense. Mandy McAllister (22:08) Yeah, so my boss told me to go find patients. I’m like, well, tell me what that means. And he’s like, well, look at this printer at 10 a.m. and you’re going to see, you know, everybody who meets criteria for our device. Like you can get this thing that’s medical records and you can see who qualifies and then you just fill out the form and put it on the chart. Well, I don’t know how well you speak of the guidelines of hospitals. And in America, we have what we call HIPAA, which is, you know, protecting of patient information. That is a felony. Jules (22:34) Yeah. Mandy McAllister (22:38) And I told him, you know, no, I won’t do that. I was just becoming a single mom. I was getting divorced from my son’s dad. And I had a full on nervous breakdown in the parking garage because he was right. I wasn’t meeting my number and I could not line up my head with going to do this thing that I knew was really, really wrong. And the idea… Jules (22:51) ⁓ Ethically wrong, Mandy McAllister (23:02) And the Jules (23:02) and legally. Mandy McAllister (23:03) idea of, my God, I might lose my job and I’m responsible for this little boy. It’s just me and him now. But in this nervous breakdown I was having, I had this revelation that, my God, I’ve bought some apartment, like little bitty four-plex apartment buildings. Like I’m not going to be homeless and penniless and under a bridge with my son if I get fired because I won’t do this thing. We’re going to eat rice and beans, but we’re going to pay the mortgage. Jules (23:31) So you had already invested in some small apartments, is that what you were saying? Okay. Mandy McAllister (23:36) Yeah, so I got really interested in college when a friend explained the house we were at the party of that her dad bought that house and she got to rent out the rooms to our friends and I said, my God, and you get to keep that money. That’s the best. That’s the best idea I’ve ever heard in my life. Jules (23:43) Yeah. my god, Mandy, I can’t believe you came to that conclusion so early in your life. That is so smart. Like, I would love my kids at 18 to be learning from other people about buying into property. I just think that’s brilliant. So, you’ve been doing that. Mandy McAllister (24:11) but I did nothing with it. Because I was so scared to screw up. Like from 19 years old till 35, I did nothing because I’m so used to indoctrinated and must be perfect or you die. know, like I finally ⁓ took the risk and bought a fourplex, again, as my son, as I was pregnant with my son, because it says revelation that, you know, we only get one of these lives, you know. Jules (24:13) right Right. So a fourplex is, I’m guessing, a block of apartments with four apartments in it. Thank you, thank you, you, take my little bow. And did you think about living in one of them? Was that ever part of it, or was it just pure investment? Mandy McAllister (24:46) rushing at jewels. Yes, that’s exactly what it is. No, that was just pure investment. Had I had my do it all over again, I would have bought a fourplex when I was 19, 20, 21, lived in one and rented out the rest. But I you know, we had a little family at that time. But when I divorced, I couldn’t find I looked for a fourplex to live in that my my nanny and my son could live in and then we would, you know, rent out the rest of those rooms. Couldn’t find one in a school district that I liked. Jules (25:00) Okay. Yeah. Mandy McAllister (25:26) But I did find a house to fix up and get to sell for a profit later on. Jules (25:32) Okay, so then you’re into the, so if you kind of by that stage have you left medical devices and you’re starting to dip your toe into the whole ⁓ real estate investment thing. I mean, it just sounds incredibly glamorous to me, Mandy, I have to say. Buying apartment blocks as opposed to apartments. Mandy McAllister (25:46) Wow. This is great. Yeah, right. Well, got it. Actually, it’s hilarious that you say this because I a couple years ago acquired a motel ⁓ because I wanted to operationalize a business within real estate and now motel would do that. Well, I went to the motel. It’s like a five and a half hour drive away from where I live and we were fully booked. Jules (25:58) Yeah. Mandy McAllister (26:11) So there was no rooms available for me to sleep in. So I set up a little cot in housekeeping and I sent my husband a picture of it. He’s like, if this, you your life is so glamorous. Like I can’t even tell you slept under a desk. Yeah. Jules (26:13) You Yeah? Yeah, it doesn’t get more glamorous than that! And the mop bucket beside you. Okay, and so how did all of that unfold then? How did you start turning that into the main income, I guess, and also your main focus? Mandy McAllister (26:28) Exactly. Yeah, so when I had that revelation that, my God, we’re not gonna be homeless and penniless and under the bridge, like it was this light bulb moment of if I double down on medical sales and I sell four million again, they’re gonna make me sell $5 million for the same money next year, you know, like I can either chase my tail. Jules (26:58) Yeah. Mandy McAllister (27:02) or I can do a lot of work and set up an apartment building, but then if I go set up another one, it just builds on top of it. I’m never chasing my tail. I’m growing my cashflow year to year. So that really, that was, I’d say 2017, 2018, when I had that revelation. Much more recent. Jules (27:12) Yeah. more recent than I thought. Okay, right. So ⁓ by then you’ve got kind of, well obviously a marriage and some teen kids and ⁓ younger kids so it’s not just you and the boy anymore. Mandy McAllister (27:36) It’s not just me and the boy anymore. So 2018, I realized I just need to back into this, that kind of thought of same thing. How do I get to where I want to go? I just need to, you can do the math. Like my life costs me however much. If I just know how much that is and I have more coming in from the apartments, then I’m going to be able to make the choice. Do I need this job or not? So then in 21, I was a member of GoBundance. I left my W2. And I was able to take on that role in leadership because I had the space. Jules (28:09) Yep. Okay, and then how did you decide to grow GoBundance when at the time, I’m guessing, it was very much a minority. If it was a male organized group, they’d done a woman’s arm, God love them, but probably not paid much attention to it. ⁓ And you came on board, was it quite small? Then how did you grow that? Mandy McAllister (28:31) There was maybe 40 of us and we went about a year without a ton of interaction or help or resources. The couple of us that locked arms and chose to run at this realized that we need this in our lives. So we decided to take it on because we needed it for us. Not that it was like maybe the best business decision I’ve ever made, but this is something that Jules (28:34) okay. Right. You Mandy McAllister (28:58) feeds me in a really big way, the opportunity to serve more women. I always say that you get two arms for a reason, one to pull yourself up and one to pull other people up with you. And that is exactly what we’re doing here. we have, you know, it’s largely through word of mouth. It’s largely through referrals because amazing people want to be next to amazing people. And I think a lot we’re working really hard to let women give Jules (29:08) my god, love that. Yeah, love that. Yeah. Yes! Mandy McAllister (29:27) their themselves permission to spend money on a business expense that actually serves you. know, it’s ⁓ that has been an interesting thing. So now we are up to one hundred and fifty six members from the 30 or 40 that we had in twenty one. Jules (29:35) Yeah, I love it. And do the women come in experienced in real estate already or are you teaching them that so they might be out of another industry and they’ve just got the income or revenue that you’re looking for? Do you then teach them or how to invest in property? Mandy McAllister (30:00) Sure, so we are not like a coaching program that helps people learn you do A and then you do B. But we are, know, if what you want to do is invest in apartment buildings, then you would join the calls of the people doing the thing and talking you through it, right? And one thing that we’ve done a pretty good job of is we do some calls that are kind of the entry level stuff. Jules (30:04) Right. Okay. Okay Mandy McAllister (30:25) Like if you need to learn how to read a balance sheet, we did that and we mark it as if it’s newer learning. So that if you come in and you need to brush up on some basics, you can watch some calls that we’ve done previously that are more basic. But it’s the high level people doing the thing that these calls are largely about. Jules (30:26) Yeah. Yeah. which is why it works so well and that’s why it’s feeding your soul as well I would think because it’s, and I do the same thing with She’s the Boss that I’m trying to bring in women so that you’re all peers so that you are able to just support each other and understand what those challenges are that are pretty unique at a certain income level I guess and or at a certain level of growth that other people don’t have I guess. So where do you want to take? Mandy McAllister (31:13) Nice. Jules (31:14) Where do you want to take all of this Mandy? Where do you see yourself with GoBundance or outside of GoBundance over the next say, I don’t know, 10 or 20 years? Mandy McAllister (31:24) So GoBundance is, I wanna grow it obviously, cause it’s only as good as its next connection, you know? And I want to grow it right. I have absolutely no interest in. Jules (31:32) Yeah, What does that mean? Mandy McAllister (31:39) I, it needs, we need to support women who are hungry for the next level. We need to support women who show up knowing that this is not some like magic pill that you take and my God, now you’re worth $10 million. You know, we want to grow with women who recognize the work that needs to be done on themselves to grow their business. ⁓ So the, we can support the right woman, the woman with the mental space. Jules (31:44) Yep. Mandy McAllister (32:08) that is headed in a direction. ⁓ But it’s not some magic pill. So we want givers and not taker energy. Because I’m sure you can imagine a world where people who ⁓ raise money for things might see, my god, that’s 156 accredited investors. I’m just going to join that and I can sell to them. Right? Like, yes, we want to do deals with our girls. But that energy is not what we’re about. You have to be a member. For six or 12 months, I forget what we wrote out. Jules (32:17) Nice, yep. Yeah, yeah, would absolutely, yeah. No. Mandy McAllister (32:37) But you have to be a member for some long amount of time before you’re allowed to pitch your deal. Because we want to show up with your heart first. Jules (32:43) Yeah, nice. I love that, I love that. ⁓ So, in terms of how you think this will grow, I guess, look, I’m sitting in Australia, there’s a lot of women in Australia that love the whole, that are hungry and ambitious and love the whole kind of investment angle. Are you going to go international? Do you accept women from overseas or is that sort of not on the cards yet? Mandy McAllister (32:48) Thank you. love that idea and we have had some members who lived you know in the the Caribbean and we had a member from Germany so that it is constrained sometimes because if you want to watch calls live it does take a little bit of doing yes to get on we had a woman in Dubai for a long time so I you know understanding that the calls do happen Jules (33:29) It’s the middle of the night, yes. Mandy McAllister (33:39) The women who squeeze the most juice out of our organization do two things in common. We looked at all our data. There’s two things that they do the same. One, they’re all in on their pod. Every member gets a pod, which is five to seven women that want the same level of accountability as them, and they don’t miss that pod. These women are, know my highs and my lows and all the skeletons in my closet, and they love me because of them. Jules (33:57) okay right Yep. Mandy McAllister (34:06) So all in on your pod. And then the second thing that they do that they feel like they’re squeezing the juice out of it is they get to at least one in-person event. So the majority of our events are stateside or ⁓ we’ve gone to Mexico a couple of times. We were in Costa Rica. were in, ⁓ you know, we go on. Yes, exactly. So twice a year, the spring and the fall. Jules (34:27) But you have these get-togethers, international get-togethers. Love it. Once a year or twice a year or… Mandy McAllister (34:36) The fall, usually do something in the States and in the spring, we usually do something warm because we’re all ready to get into the sun because we’ve been cold for too long. I’ll say too, I want this podcast that Kelly and I started, Power Up Your Life, to get the message out beyond just to accredited investors. One thing that I would really like to do in the next however many years, maybe sooner than later, is I want to put together a fund. Jules (34:46) Fantastic. my god, I’m- Yeah. Mandy McAllister (35:05) that we are women who talk about supporting women. And as a commercial real estate investor, I know that only 1.5 % of all commercial real estate investors are women. And we know my partner Kelly in the podcast, she is a business scaling expert and only 1.7 % of venture capital funds go to women, right? So I want to do a fund. Jules (35:30) Right. Yeah. It’s less in Australia. It’s crap. It’s so rubbish. Mandy McAllister (35:34) Yeah, exactly. It’s the same. And thank you for the introductions to the incredible. Yes, it’s so rubbish. And we know that women do better than our male counterparts. know, I mean, be it because of the imposter syndrome that makes us look around more corners than our potentially overconfident dude counterparts. Like we do a better job at making sure that we are truly talking about the thing that we’re talking about. Right. So let’s put. Jules (35:42) Yeah, of course! But on top of that, there’s a level that women do that you’ve alluded to, which is support other women. Or put that money into something that’s gonna improve other people’s lives rather than just lining their own bank account. Mandy McAllister (36:14) Yes, like we don’t want to, you know, move capital around just to make money and make decisions that don’t align with the world that we want to see. You know, like I have my whole life making the decision that does better by the world and by patients and all of the things. I want to do that in such a way that it’s at scale supporting women. So in my brain, I actually talked to an attorney about this this weekend at an event. I got to MC. Jules (36:21) Yeah. Yeah. Mandy McAllister (36:41) We’re working on the thesis of what this investment vehicle would look like. But I think it hedges the safety of real estate because it grows slowly, but it’s very safe. Real estate doesn’t necessarily go to zero basically ever. businesses can have really fast, huge pops of wealth building. So I see a possibility of marrying the two together. Jules (36:55) Yeah. god, I hope you do. That would be just so brilliant for women everywhere. Okay, if there was somebody listening to this wherever they might be in the world, if they wanted to get involved or find out more about GoBundance, what’s the best way of them doing that? Mandy McAllister (37:21) So our website has a lot of stuff. It has our blog. It has a chance to subscribe to our newsletter so that you’ll be aware of all the free stuff that we do to the outer public. It’s goabundancewomen.com. I’ll make sure I spell that correctly so that we can get it into your show notes. But our website does just about everything. And my website, mandymicalister.com, links up to everything too. Jules (37:28) Okay, great. Fantastic. ⁓ okay, last question. Thank you so much for this. You are just a very inspiring woman, and I’m sure that a lot of people listening are gonna go, my god, I need to know more about this woman. But, now I ask a question completely out of left field that a journalist suggested years ago that I ask, and I love the answers I get for it. So, is there a quirky fact about you that most people don’t know that you’d be up for sharing? And it doesn’t have to be about business, it can be anything. Mandy McAllister (38:14) Hmm. I’ve shared this in some circles, but it is, think it’s really kind of, I think it’s cool. So I defending my master’s thesis, like I visibly shook, like I was so scared of speaking and was so certain that I didn’t belong and nobody would want to listen to what I had to say. So I, at 30 years old realized if I want to live the life I want to live, I got to fix that, right? So in Chicago, Chicago is really known for improv comedy. All the Jules (38:19) Yeah, yeah. Yeah? Mandy McAllister (38:46) professionally funny people go through Second City. So when I was 30 years old, I started taking classes at Second City. And then the year that anybody off the street can take, my teacher said, you’re not bad. You should try out for the conservatory, audition for the conservatory. And they freaking let me in to the conservatory. So whenever I say something that I think is hilarious, I tell my husband that I’m classically trained. Jules (39:02) my god! that that is a great fact. Well thank you so much Mandy, I have absolutely loved our interview and I know it’s going to inspire a whole lot of other women and I absolutely hope you get that fund up and running in the future because it’s so needed. Mandy McAllister (39:26) We will definitely keep you in the loop. Jules, thank you for this and for everything you put into the world. Jules (39:32) My pleasure.